improve (page action crowner): Karma Houdini

Your most recent posts have suggested that your argument is that escaping any kind of expected punishment is either an Omnipresent Trope - which, despite the large number of examples, is still less pervasive than villains being defeated/punished/whatever - or an aversion of ... extremely specific expected punishments ... which doesn't make a significant amount of sense when presented in that fashion.

If Laser-Guided Karma really are specific expected punishments the third and the fourth paragraphs need one urgent rewrite:

• "In case of high school bullies, especially the Jerk Jock and The Libby, for the justice of the unfortunate folks they shun and torment and degrade day after day, their lives almost always end up plummeting downhill when everyone goes their separate ways after high school. Something really bad ends up happening to them - they end up being hideously disfigured, crippled or both in some horrible accident, or their lives are cut short and they end up dying a slow and painful death from some terrible injuries or some disease like AIDS or cancer. They usually end up being single or deadbeat parents, criminals, drug addicts, alcoholics, either working dead-end minimum wage job or unemployed or living on welfare, being homeless vagabonds altogether, or otherwise having an extremely shitty and wasted life."
• "Oh yeah, and usually they don't age well, either - they put on a lot of weight, go bald, get all wrinkly, etc."

edited 20th Dec '10 12:43:54 PM by MagBas

If there's a problem with Laser-Guided Karma, start a new thread related to it.

This is a thread for discussing Karma Houdini.

There is no problem with Laser-Guided Karma. The only issue is with your perception of it causing you to see issues where there aren't any.

Sorry for bringing up a completely different matter, but this thread seems to be the most relevant to ask it in: the article used to have a section detailing various reasons for creating such a character (ranging from "the character is The Wesley" to What Happened to the Mouse?), but it's gone now in the rewritten version. Is there an explanation?

The reason given by Fast Eddie when deleted this was:"Also deleted a long, wandering rant. The text left here describes the trope with humor. Job done."

Daaaw, I liked that long wandering rant. Oh well.

If this is done we can lock her up.

Just decided to write up a shorter, more concise, and less ranty list of ways that a Karma Houdini could be created. I've decided to vet it here to make sure it's kosher before posting it on the actual page. Let me know it it's okay, or if it's going to cause trouble.

—-

So how does such a black-hearted scoundrel get away with it all and escape his justly-earned retribution? There could be a number of reasons.

• The Bad Guy Wins. - He's achieved his goals and struck down all who could oppose him. It would feel cheap to resolve the situation with a random heart attack after that.
• Redemption Is Cheap. -It's all well and good for a villain to see the light and change sides, but once that switch is flipped it's all too easy to forget about all the mayhem he caused before that moment (especially if the victims weren't named characters). Even if Redemption Equals Death, one heroic act at the end isn't enough to make up for a long career of dog football.
• But What About Him? - The Sorting Algorithm of Evil, and the story, has left the villain behind, and a much larger threat has taken over. Once the heroes have dealt with Entropus the Destroyer of Worlds, sometimes the story forgets that there's still an Evil Emperor ruling his kingdom with an iron fist.
• Horrible History - The story is based on a true story, where the antagonists were never brought to justice. If the writers care at all about historical accuracy, the villain will be a Karma Houdini by default.
• Executive Meddling - In some very rare cases, the author/filmmaker does write an appropriately grim death scene for the villainous character, but Executive Meddling determines that it's too gruesome, hurts the flow of the narrative, makes the movie run on too long, and so forth.
• Slipped the Sequel Hook - The writer may have left the villain alone so that he could return to cause more mayhem in a future sequel (and hopefully recieve his just desserts then). But sometimes the sequel never gets made...
• The Untouchable - The villain is simply too powerful for the heroes to handle. This tends to be the case in stories where the heroes are simply ordinary people thrown into a bad situation beyond their control; the best they can do is survive the story.

edited 14th Jan '11 10:35:23 AM by Wyvernil

I'm not an expert on the trope, but that list is very clear and easy on the eyes. Good work!

Question:Exist many persons putting heroic examples in Karma Houdini. But the description only mentions villains. This is a misuse of the trope?

edited 14th Jan '11 6:33:13 PM by MagBas

I'm not sure if Karma Houdini should only apply to villains (or at least characters who were enemies of the heroes), or if any character that commits atrocious deeds would qualify.

By the latter definition, a Villain Protagonist who is allowed to commit reprehensible acts (particularly in games where a Karma Meter is in place) and get away with them could qualify as a Karma Houdini despite being, well, the protagonist.

It would also add an additional cause of the Karma Houdini to the list; since the character in question was never an enemy of the heroes, they wouldn't have had an opportunity to bring him to justice.

edited 14th Jan '11 11:10:16 PM by Wyvernil

If a hero gets away with reprehensible acts, isn't it Moral Dissonance?

I like your addition to the list.

I am not speaking about Villains Protagonists. I am speaking about characters that are canonically the heroes-ie Eragon, Jerry, etc.

edited 15th Jan '11 6:21:52 AM by MagBas

Yeah, that's Moral Dissonance. Cut 'em from the list.

Also, MOFW for the phrase "dog football."

Well, i will realize this...later. I want be sure that exists no objections. Other question:And villains that WERE punished, only that the persons watching guessed that their punishment was insufficient?

^^No, Moral Dissonance is when a hero has a double standard. Not "This guy did something I don't like and never got punished for it".

edited 15th Jan '11 9:34:44 AM by muninn

So, Karma Houdini is "This guy did something I don't like and never got punished for it"? This is the exact meaning of Karma Houdini? Well... in this case really is no misuse where the heroic examples are concerned. But and the cases where the character was punished but not the sufficient? Are misuses? If i am not mistaken the bit removed by Fast Eddie is where was the part of "insufficient punishment" was-and the description uses the "scot-free" word.

edited 15th Jan '11 12:05:29 PM by MagBas

The "insufficient punishment" part is better left out; getting people to agree on an appropriate amount of karma is tough, especially when there are people who claim that, for certain actions, no amount of punishment could possibly be enough.

...I guess that you is right. Well, i will wait by consensus before of decide if i must realize one clean-up of "insufficient punishment" examples or not. Complaints?

edited 16th Jan '11 8:35:19 AM by MagBas

From a brief look at this, a hell of a lot of the examples would be better in Moral Dissonance or It Just Bugs Me!... complaints about a heroic character doing something you didn't like.

This trope has a good and specific meaning - a villain who goes completely unpunished. There shouldn't really be heroic examples at all.

Also, I removed those silly paragraphs in Laser-Guided Karma that are basically complaining about the mean kids who were mean to you in school. But that trope could do with a clean up at all - a lot of the examples are just regular karma... or just things that happened.

"A villain who goes completely unpunished"? Is this the meaning of Karma Houdini? In this case must be realized one cleanup in both villains that receive "insufficient" punishment AND heroic(or at least non-villainous) examples.

edited 20th Jan '11 2:59:59 PM by MagBas

Bump.

Well, already was one week. If nobody have more nothing to say, i am starting the clean-up. I plans clean only one by day to give time to complaints/discussion, if exist, i want be sure that the persons have no complaints about the clean-up. Ok?

Second day of the clean-up. I started with videogames, now is Western Animation.