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OP by SoyValdo7

Bleached Underpants describes the phenomenon in which a work with explicit sexual or pornographic content voluntarily decides to eliminate those elements in order to be more appealing to the general public. The laconic page refers to it as self-Bowdlerise. It was added to the Tropes Needing TRS because of two things: firstly, and I quote, "it should be Trivia". and secondly, it appears to also be used for when "a creator of a work aimed at general audiences also created an NSFW one that has no relation to the non-NSFW one". A wick check was done to determine if this was the case (Sandbox.Bleached Underpants). Here are the results:

Percentages (50/50):

  • lewd or adult content is remove from the work = 38%
  • The creator also did/make porn/more adult content = 38%
  • Misused examples = 10%
  • Others = 14%

Analysis:

So, the sample is split into two large groups. Group A, with 38% following the description of the trope by eliminating the lewd or adult content of the work, and Group B, also with 38% mentioning that the creator has other works more explicit than the one listed, The remaining 24% is made up of misused examples and non-trope wicks.

As I said, Group B is made up of examples of the creator's past works, which sounds a lot like He Also Did, which is trivia, and Group A has many examples of erotic games with ports in which sex scenes are removed without altering the story. So turning this trope into trivia would be appropriate.

It's difficult to ascertain what caused Group B to appear, but the trope's name probably doesn't help. It's supposed to be a pun on dirty laundry, but it's not really evident and doesn't immediately tell what this trope is about. the image on the main page doesn't help either, as it shows a character mentioning her previous work in the porn industry and being a bit embarrassed about it, something that reinforces the idea that this trope is about the author's past work.

Suggestion:

  • As suggested here: Split the trope. Both tropes should probably move to trivia.
    • The trope that emerges from Group B can be a subtrope of He Also Did.
    • Rename Bleached Underpants to something clearer. Also, change the image of the main page.
  • Other suggestions are welcome.

Wick check:

(50/50)
    open/close all folders 

     lewd or adult content is remove from the work (19/50) 
  1. UncertainAudience.Video Games: Blazing Aries: On one hand, since it's an H-Game, part of its main demographic might be interested in part of the risque scenes. However, the problem with that is most of them are locked after the second part of the first chapter... and the first part of the first chapter is notorious for being Early Game Hell, thus frustrating those who came for the fanservice and alienating them at worse, and it only gets worse from there, since it's Surprisingly difficult for an eroge even on the easiest setting. And for those came for the gameplay are alienated by the fanservice elements, since its an eroge, and they also complain about the game being unable to decide what kind of Action RPG it is (for example, the combo-based gameplay system might be inspired from the Tales Series, but some of the bosses tend to discourage combos) and vice-versa. Notably, the FANZA and Steam versions of it have the normal difficulty nerfed, particularly due to these complaints, and the removal of sex scenes for the international versions, not to mention a family-friendly option, which would normally attract complaints, is seen as a blessing since it allows the game to have a more distinct identity. ► sex scenes were removed
  2. WebVideo.Exploding TNT: ExplodingTNT's earlier videos were more adult, with swearing, Vulgar Humor, and Pink Sheep's character as an extreme pervert who lusts after everyone else. Since 2014, his videos have been squeaky clean, most likely to reach a wider audience.
  3. VideoGame.Venus Blood Gaia: The International version, as with previous international releases of the Venus Blood series, removes all of the game's original lewd content in the base game and requires external patching to add back in.
  4. DarthWiki.Ludlin: Wojciech and Agatka Tarczowscy are more-or-less the same characters; however, they were originally husband and wife, not sister and brother, and Agatka gave birth to Stanislaw, Michal's illegitmate son. The current timeline removes that incident altogether as part of the Bleached Underpants reworking of Michal. Wojtek's sweetheart, Justynka Kosowna, is another former girlfriend of the randier Michal and in the original stories ran off with his local rival Lucjan Czarniecki - who will reappear later on. ► From a example of The Artifact. Adult content was removed from the work
  5. Recap.We Are Our Avatars Escapist: Created by Trilby Will, this thread contains most of the iconic characters of the series, like Four, Joe, and Erica/Regulus. It also has a lot of detailed FanService and sex... Suffice it to say that it is a bit on the NSFW side.
  6. VisualNovel.Comic Party: Comic Party began as a romantic adventure and dating sim video game by Leaf. The original PC release contained adult content but subsequent re-releases on the Sega Dreamcast, PC, and PSP were cleaned. This game was inspired from the real world event of Comiket held in Tokyo bi-annually. Comiket is a Doujinshi fair where artists gather to share their work.
  7. Anime.Tsugumomo: The manga becomes increasingly pornographic, with a lot of questionable content being played for laughs and fanservice, including content of the non-consensual and even pedophilic kind. The author admits he tries to have at least one naked female character per chapter, and his goal is to show all the female characters naked at least once. The anime adaptation greatly tones down the NSFW content for a PG-13 rating — at least when it comes to the televised version.
  8. VisualNovel.Aselia The Eternal The Spirit Of Eternity Sword: The fan translated version only works with the Special Package version of Seinarukana, which included a backport of the Playstation 2 version of Eien no Aselia... which means they had to cut out any sex scenes. (Likewise, the official translation from Jast will be based on this version.) However, it's pretty easy to tell when they occurred and occasional reference is made to them, especially Tokimi's. ► PS2 version removed adult content from the work
  9. Trivia.Tears To Tiara: Although anyone with a good ear and half familiar with the Japanese CV scene can tell who was really recasted, and who had just used an alias for the original PC version. ► The original work had sex scenes that were removed for the PS3 version of the game. Some voice actors worked on the original version under an alias.
  10. Music.Bz: Koshi, without a doubt. Having a good-looking face, a good figure and well-marked muscles, Koshi usually appeared with skimpy clothes (or even with just a boxer short) in most of their concerts in The '90s. With the time he got more clothes, but still used stretched clothes in concerts. Even today in his 50s, Koshi still breaks hearts of the girls.
  11. AndYouThoughtItWouldFail.Other Media: Before the English release of SHUFFLE!, anime based on eroge with the porn removed from the adaptation were not commonly licensed, with rumors flying around that Moral Guardians would throw a fit if they ended up on store shelves. When Funimation licensed the series, nearly every blog and forum was raising its collective eyebrows and wondering why the distributor obviously hated making money. The first volume of SHUFFLE! came out and sold tons of copies, and Funi decided to give the final volume a special edition art box release (which had been common a few years earlier, but in the wake of Geneon's fall, not so much) if the second volume sold as well. It did. Now you can't walk into a video store without tripping over eroge adaptations, whether or not they actually have a plot.
  12. VideoGame.Nanaca Crash: The characters are borrowed from the PC H-Game CROSS†CHANNEL. ► Characters debut in a more adult work.
  13. VisualNovel.A Sky Full Of Stars: A Sky Full of Stars (originally titled Miagete Goran, Yozora no Hoshi wo) is a romance Visual Novel released in 2015 by Pulltop. It was given an official all-ages English release on 12/15/17. It also has two fandiscs, Miagete Goran, Yozora no Hoshi wo: FINE DAYS, which features fanservicey content and extra routes for secondary characters; and Miagete Goran, Yozora no Hoshi wo: INTERSTELLAR FOCUS, which is a follow-up story focusing on both Hikari and Saya. ► Adult content was removed from the work.
  14. VisualNovel.Yosuga No Sora: Played straight in the manga, even in such crucial scenes as Nao's "rape" flashback and Nao and Kozue catching the Kasuganos in the act. Averted and even inverted in the anime, where while not extremely explicit, Motoka is shown masturbating (and implicitly on a frequent basis) and the show has no qualms showing nipples in full detail. Then Episode 4 (Kazuha 4) literally gives the starting act of a sex scene, and Episode 6 (Akira 4) goes all out showing Akira in all sorts of surprising sex positions. Though admittedly, the manga follows the original visual novel more closely than the anime, making the anime an example of Hotter and Sexier. ► Several cases in one example. Possibly misuse with the part that is averted and inverted at the same time.
  15. Anime.Dream Hunter Rem: It started out as hentai, but was retooled into ecchi after the first episode. Averted in the manga series Dream Hunter Rem XX. ► Several cases in one example.
  16. Manga.The Elder Sister Like One: ► This one appears three times on the same page, all of them valid.
    • Iida Pochi first created the story in the form of a series of hentai doujins, and then got to expand it into a non-hentai monthly serial (see Bleached Underpants below) while simultaneously continuing to publish said doujins. An OVA has been announced.
    • The Elephant in the Living Room is that the original story was a series of onee-shota (mature woman with adolescent boy) hentai doujins. However, the underlying relationship was so heartwarming that it was made into an all-ages monthly serial. Extensive Ship Teasing ensued. On the other hand, Pochi has continued to produce the H doujins even while working on the serial ...and author notes indicate that the doujins are canon to the manga and simply take place further down the timeline, meaning those underpants aren't staying bleached. ► From an example of this trope itself
    • There is a lot of Ship Teasing between Chiyo and Yuu, though they technically aren't siblings in any real sense of the word (she's an Outer God who made a contract with him to act as his older sister rather than an actual relative). This isn't helped by the fact that the series was originally a hentai before it was picked up for serialization. ► From an example of Incest Subtext
  17. WesternAnimation.Totally Spies: The theme song is an edited version of "Here We Go" by Moonbaby (later covered by Girls Aloud) with some lyrics changed to suit the show. The original is kind of risque... which might explain Cartoon Network airing an instrumental version as a theme, as to avoid children looking up the full song...
  18. Creator.Go Nagai: Nagai is known for intentionally breaking taboos. Even his milder material has a humorously deranged quality to it. His early works got him in trouble with the PTA, and even today some of them can contain controversial material. Nevertheless, most of his TV work is technically safe in the interest of placating censors even in Latin America and Europe (though not the US).► Valid. The author toned down his work to appeal to a wider audience.
  19. VisualNovel.To Heart 2: Inverted, the adult version of the game was released one year after the original, clean version. ► Valid inverted example

     The creator also did/make porn/more adult content (19/50) 
  1. VideoGame.Live A Hero: It's LifeWonders, so it's no surprise that many of the artists for the game have a notable background with adult-doujins and porn.
  2. VideoGame.Arknights: Quite a few of the contracted illustrators are also known to draw hentai, such as Liduke, who's responsible for the artwork of several high-profile characters like Hellagur, W, and Schwarz, to name a few.
  3. Webcomic.Rogue Diamond: The comic is much tamer compared to the artist's other works.
  4. Headscratchers.Clannad: How come we never see Nagisa and Tomoya doing the deed ? I know it's it's at the G rating, but this is Key we are talking about, the other Seasonverse games have H-scenes, so why not Clannad? They even had both a clean and unclean version of both Air and Kanon. I know this is a stupid question and the obvious anwsers are either "They can't get away with sex" and "Let the fans draw it then", but it must be said. ► It questions why the work lacks sex scenes when the author's previous works did have them.
  5. Manga.Aiki: AIKI is a Seinen action manga, written and drawn by Isutoshi, which was serialized in Young King from 2004 to 2012. Isutoshi is an artist mostly known for doing H-manga; however, as the series progresses, the manga tilts more towards martial arts and comedy and less towards the ecchi side (though a good amount of Fanservice still remains).
  6. AuthorAppeal.Surname R To Z: There are always gay couples in Zee Rose's works or every guy is bi. They're either married, dating, or even just teasing each other—but expect them to get a lot of scenes. Observe The Princess 99 and then look at her other online published works, especially Gaeadians. Though this might be justifiable since she started out drawing yaoi-oriented doujinshi.
  7. Fetish Retardant: Dr. Seuss's one foray into "adult" literature was the illustrated novel The Seven Lady Godivas. It was intended to be racy, as all the main characters are nude women. The problem, as Seuss himself admitted later, was that all the characters were nude women as drawn by Dr. Seuss. As you'd expect, nobody at all found it sexy and the book was a complete flop.
  8. Trivia.Senran Kagura: ► Incorrectly listed on the trivia page as an example
    • The Guren no Hibi manga is drawn by Aoi Nanabu (Circle name BLUEMAGE), an artist known for doing hentai doujin with very shapely characters (perfect fit for Senran Kagura). An interesting note is that one of his favorite characters is Yuuka, whom Hikage resembles considerably. It's believed a contract is stopping him from doing doujins of the series.
    • The series' artist, Yaegashi Nan, has drawn hentai and other NSFW material before and during Senran Kagura's incarnation.
  9. WesternAnimation.Down And Dirty Duck: Charles Swenson, the writer of An American Tail: Fievel Goes West and producer/director for Rugrats and Aaahh!!! Real Monsters directed this film decades before the shows came to be. Many VHS releases for the film advertise this on the box. ► The director went on to do other more famous and family-friendly works.
  10. Expy.Video Games: Fate/Grand Order is no exception. As one of many examples, Minamoto no Raikou has a startling resemblance to Suzuhara Misae from Zettai Junpaku Mahou Shoujo — they have the same character designer: Honjou Raita. ► One character resembles another character. Apart from sharing an artist, there are no other connections between the two works.
  11. Webcomic.Way Of Wushu: ShamefulDisplay is a pornographic artist, and this shows prominently on the way adult!Laowai is drawn. ► This specific work does not appear to have adult content.
  12. WhatDoYouMeanItsForKids.Anime And Manga: The manga series Destiny Lovers (Desu Raba) is drawn by hentai artist Kai Tomohiro, and involves a high school boy who hates girls being kidnapped and waking up to a girl trying to rape him, in a prison where women keep men in cages. It was serialized on Magapoke, the app for Kodansha's Shonen Magazine, alongside series like Fairy Tail spin-offs.
  13. FateGrandOrder.Tropes A To C: Some of the artists who contributed to the game have drawn adult content artwork.
  14. Series.W817: This is Jasmijn's stance on the swimwear photoshoot she did, merely a day after she did the shoot. She even tries to retrieve the negatives from the photgrapher, only to find out that the agency already took them.
  15. Manga.Killing Bites: If the girls' designs and ecchi moments didn't tip you off, the artist Kazasa Sumita did some eromanga in the past. The author Murata also ran a H-doujin circle with his wife Sato. The spinoff manga, which is by the same author and artist, makes this abundantly clear.
  16. Fanfic.Ask Impure Vessel: The creator freely admits to being a semi-professional pornographer but keeps the fic clean, as several young teenagers read the fic.
  17. VideoGame.Wild Arms 5: The character designer produced (and still does) hardcore doujinshi under the pen name of Shuhan/Syuhan/Article 60 of Criminal Code.
  18. Creator.Dr Seuss: The Seven Lady Godivas (1939) ► Pothole to draw attention to the fact that Dr. Seuss started out making more adult content.
  19. Trivia.Symphogear: The artist for the spin-off manga "Symphogear: Feast of the Valkyries ~Shirabe’s Cooking~", has previously done fanart (with certain spicier examples with Hibiki and Miku) for the show ever since the first Season. ► This creator's fanart has no relation to the official material..

     Misuse examples (5/50) 
  1. Frothy Mugs of Water: That is orange juice in Duel Savior Destiny. Totally not alcohol, and they didn't turn it orange in this release to cut down on adult content. Absolutely not, no sir. ► Misuse. Nothing sexual has been removed from the work or appears to be in the work to begin with. The rest is perfectly covered by Frothy Mugs Of Water.
  2. Joke of the Butt: The rejected Cartoon Network pilot Bottom's Butte had this in full force. Aside from the title's obvious posterior-related pun, the title card depicts the title written on the seat of Beverly's panties and its original title from when the show was initially planned for adult audiences was Bottoms Up. ► Misuse. This is a rejected pilot for a show, which means that it failed to attract a wider audience. So in reality, there is no clean version of this work.
  3. Characters.Toon Zone Wrestling: Averted In-Universe. She's an adult film star and does not try to hide it. ► An In Universe example. The character did porn in the past. Not really what the trope is about.
  4. Characters.Harem Prince: It's implied that her work as Shoko Rintaro is much dirtier than today. ► An In Universe example. The character did porn in the past. Not really what the trope is about.
  5. Webcomic.Sticky Dilly Buns: The title character of the comic is the (very, very) Camp Gay aspiring actor Dillon O'Brien (no relation), and many of the strips concern his romantic life, and especially his new relationship with his neighbor Jerzy. However, much of the drama involves the second lead character, his room-mate and fellow actor, the ex-porn star Amber Larose, and especially the unexpected appearance of her younger sister Ruby, who moves into their apartment while searching for a job in the city. ► An In Universe example. The character did porn in the past. Not really what the trope is about.

     Others (7/50) 
  1. UsefulNotes.Visual Novel Fanspeak: Eroge is a very broad level term. It simply means 'erotic game' and thus encompasses any game or visual novel containing sexual content. While this lends itself well to the romance or porn-based works which dominate the industry, there are also a sizable number of works that include sexual or romance themes as a sideplot; it's not unheard of for these to receive later "all ages" releases which remove or replace the adult content entirely.
  2. Dating Sim: Some Sim Date games have been made into Harem anime, though the result is usually nothing special due to the removal of sex and the fact that the narrative can no longer focus on any single character.
  3. Utsuge: Most Utsuge, being Dating Sims, also contain some of the erotic content that comes with the territory. It is rare to find examples without any erotic content whatsoever, although some H-Games have been re-released without adult material to appeal to a wider audience, usually without suffering any negative consequences for the story or playability. Still, gaming companies generally don't explicitly market their games as Utsuge, instead emphasizing their Dating Sim-nature to appeal to the typically male audience.
  4. PlayingWith.Bleached Underpants ► The Playing With page for the trope
  5. Polished Port: This is prevalent in visual novel industry, usually when a game gets an anime version. Besides releasing the game to another console, changes can include entirely new stories and characters and, almost always, removal of sex scenes. Some older classics usually get a fully voiced edition, the best kind of premium content people's wish to be found in this genre. Some rare cases, like Little Busters! (Ecstacy) get a reversed-Bleached Underpants rerelease.
  6. Media Adaptation Tropes: A work featuring mature content is given an adaptation that is more kid-friendly.
  7. Headscratchers.The Familiar Of Zero: Did this show start out as a Dating Sim or something? Every time Saito accomplishes anything that affects his standing with a potential romantic interest, there's this funny sound that happens in the background. In addition, the fact that the entire cast seems to view him as either a date or a rival bears a rather uncanny resemblance to them, Saito's somewhat Featureless Protagonist-like archetype, the comedically inserted gags about artifacts from Earth and random Fanservice (including LITERAL Bleached Underpants) also give me the impression this either began as a visual novel or is primarily a parody of them.► Questions if the work is an example of this trope

Edited by GastonRabbit on Feb 21st 2024 at 7:12:57 AM

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#27: Nov 5th 2023 at 11:54:08 AM

What about cases where the NSFW thing is canon to the general work?

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
SoyValdo7 I mainly fix indentation issues from La tierra de lagos y volcanes Since: Sep, 2022 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
I mainly fix indentation issues
#28: Nov 5th 2023 at 1:31:51 PM

We simply move them to other tropes, like Tamer and Chaster.

Valdo
SoyValdo7 I mainly fix indentation issues from La tierra de lagos y volcanes Since: Sep, 2022 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
I mainly fix indentation issues
#29: Nov 6th 2023 at 2:41:05 PM

Well, to try to sum it all up, these are the suggested actions as of right now:

There is also the possibility of: On the matter of whether tropes are trivia or not, only the new trope should be trivia. If we decide to rename Bleached Underpants, we might as well rewrite its description, since it currently focuses too much on a character and not on the work in general (since the trope has had problems with its description from the beginning).
EDIT: ▲ As suggested in the 2017 thread:

EDIT 2: [down] uh, sorry.

EDIT 3: [down][down] I appreciate you bringing it up. This is only to see where we are right now, it's not definitive.

Edited by SoyValdo7 on Nov 6th 2023 at 11:25:32 AM

Valdo
AudioSpeaks2 He/Him (Greenhorn) Relationship Status: Oh my word! I'm gay!
He/Him
#30: Nov 6th 2023 at 5:29:40 PM

[up] I think the term should be "rename" present tense not "renamed" past tense.

Edited by AudioSpeaks2 on Nov 6th 2023 at 9:29:46 PM

Art Museum Curator and frequent helper of the Web Original deprecation project
StarSword Captain of USS Bajor from somewhere in deep space Since: Sep, 2011
Captain of USS Bajor
#31: Nov 6th 2023 at 9:00:53 PM

[up][up]Generally we decide the name of any new trope later after we've decided on the general course of action, but otherwise, yes.

GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#32: Nov 7th 2023 at 10:49:04 AM

We can't use those crowner options as-is. Whether to rename and/or split would have to be decided before deciding which name would be used, and names are selected with separate crowners (if we go with both renaming and splitting, we'd need two more crowners after the crowner that decided to rename and split, with one being for deciding what to call Bleached Underpants, and the other being for deciding what to call the new trope/Trivia, though we wouldn't have to do the name selection crowners in that order).

Edit: With that in mind, maybe the crowner options could be redone this way:

  • Rename Bleached Underpants (not mutually exclusive with spinning off a new trope; mutually exclusive with disambiguating Bleached Underpants without renaming).
  • Spin off a new trope for when SFW works' creation involved creators of NSFW works. What to call the trope would be decided with a separate crowner (not mutually exclusive with renaming or disambiguating Bleached Underpants).
  • If a new trope for when SFW works' creation involved creators of NSFW works is made, classify it as Trivia.
  • Disambiguate Bleached Underpants between Tamer and Chaster, I Was Young and Needed the Money, He Also Did and possibly other pages instead of renaming the trope (mutually exclusive with renaming Bleached Underpants; not mutually exlusive with spinning off a new trope for when SFW works' creation involved a creator of NSFW works).

Not entirely sure if I got everything. I mostly clarified what the new trope's definition would be, whether the new trope should be Trivia, and clarified that disambiguating Bleached Underpants would mean getting rid of it instead of renaming it.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Nov 7th 2023 at 12:58:31 PM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
GastonRabbit MOD Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#33: Nov 8th 2023 at 4:32:49 PM

Hooked a crowner with the options from my previous post.

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
MyFinalEdits Officially intimidated from Parts Unknown (Ten years in the joint) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Officially intimidated
#34: Nov 8th 2023 at 4:56:13 PM

Posting this comment to make public that I voted in favor of a rename, and also against a disambiguation. I left the other options intact.

135 - 169 - 273 - 191 - 188 - 230 - 300
GastonRabbit MOD Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#35: Nov 13th 2023 at 12:01:07 AM

Calling in favor of the following:

  • Spin off a new trope for when SFW works' creation involved creators of NSFW works.
  • If a new trope for when SFW works' creation involved creators of NSFW works is made, classify it as Trivia.

Since we're not touching Bleached Underpants, I think the work here can be deferred to TLP, so this thread can be closed if someone makes the draft or Yards it.

Edit: Clocked the thread to give people time to either make a draft or Yard the concept. I'll Yard it myself if the clock runs out without anyone else doing either of those.

Edit: Neglected to mention that we're not doing a name selection crowner for the new page because the name will be decided by TLP after the draft is made.

Edit: Clarified the text of the previous edit because it caused some confusion.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Nov 13th 2023 at 2:35:33 PM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
StarSword Captain of USS Bajor from somewhere in deep space Since: Sep, 2011
Captain of USS Bajor
#36: Nov 13th 2023 at 11:04:53 AM

[up]So, what's happening to Bleached Underpants itself then? You said something about renaming it, but that option ended with net zero votes, less than disambiguating.

Berrenta How sweet it is from Texas Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
How sweet it is
#37: Nov 13th 2023 at 12:12:27 PM

[up] We can still clean up misuse.

she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope Report
GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#38: Nov 13th 2023 at 12:28:34 PM

[up]Cleanup of misuse could be taken to Short-Term Projects, since TRS decided not to take action.

[up][up]I mentioned renaming because it was an option, not because we were definitely doing it. The fact that it ended up lacking consensus is why we aren't doing it.

Edit: Oh, if you mean what I said about how we're not doing a rename crowner, I'm referring to how we're not using a crowner to decide the name of the "Spin off a new trope for when SFW works' creation involved creators of NSFW works" option for making a new Trivia page, because we're leaving the selection of the name up to TLP. They could have a crowner on TLP, but this thread doesn't need to decide it if the page's launch is going to TLP.

Edit: Clarified that line because I meant to say name selection crowner, not rename crowner, since it's not renaming if the page hasn't been made yet. Me saying "rename" was a slip of the tongue because name selection crowners tend to be for renaming existing pages, so I accidentally said "rename" out of habit. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Nov 13th 2023 at 2:39:05 PM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
StarSword Captain of USS Bajor from somewhere in deep space Since: Sep, 2011
Captain of USS Bajor
#39: Nov 13th 2023 at 3:31:43 PM

No, my problem is that I don't feel like we actually positively decided what our working definition of this trope is supposed to be, hence what the trope is actually supposed to look like when we're finished cleaning.

I don't understand from the current or past descriptions where OP got their definition (maybe they were using the Laconic, but those often don't accurately describe the trope as it is). SoyValdo wrote:

"Bleached Underpants describes the phenomenon in which a work with explicit sexual or pornographic content voluntarily decides to eliminate those elements in order to be more appealing to the general public."

But the description says (emphasis mine):

"Many characters have a past connecting them back to a previous sometimes-unwholesome work."

And the page quote and the next paragraph support that version: reference the page quote's hypothetical of Batman having first appeared as an OC in a gay porn parody of a Superman comic.

And if we assume for the sake of argument that SoyValdo does indeed have the intended definition, then I still don't understand what actually qualifies as a correct example: how does a creator "eliminate those elements"? If we're talking about in an adaptation or in a rework for a foreign market, then as I mentioned previously, we're still colliding with healthier tropes: for example, the two Fate/stay night anime adaptations both cut the explicit sex scenes from the original VN in favor of (I'm gonna call it) going Surrealist for a bit—which is Tamer and Chaster. And the American release of The Witcher censored the nudity that was present in the original Polish version—which is Bowdlerize.

That was why I suggested just splitting the trope: it seemed like all the possible definitions were already covered.

Edited by StarSword on Nov 13th 2023 at 7:05:53 AM

SoyValdo7 I mainly fix indentation issues from La tierra de lagos y volcanes Since: Sep, 2022 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
I mainly fix indentation issues
#40: Nov 13th 2023 at 4:43:03 PM

Actually, I got that definition from the entry on Tropes Needing TRS and the accompanying ATT. Both matched one of the most common ways in which Bleached Underpants is often used. When I did the wick check, I don't recall any occasion where an example focused exclusively on a single character. It was always either an entire work or about the author's past works. The closest thing to the idea of "characters have a past connecting them back to a previous sometimes-unwholesome work" were three In-Universe examples about characters who used to work in the adult industry (Characters.Toon Zone Wrestling, Characters.Harem Prince and Webcomic.Sticky Dilly Buns).

It's clear now that the description and the way the trope is used are completely disconnected and also possibly redundant with other tropes, so if we do nothing to the trope now, it will certainly end up in TRS again in the future.

Edited by SoyValdo7 on Nov 13th 2023 at 8:51:27 AM

Valdo
GastonRabbit MOD Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#41: Nov 13th 2023 at 7:18:41 PM

Shut the clock off and unstarred the thread since it looks like there might have been issues the previous crowner didn't address, based on the previous posts. Running a second crowner would be an option if we come up with options for it after hashing out the definition issues (though it would probably be best to take our time discussing things before hooking another crowner). Trying the rename vote again if we run a crowner for deciding the definition would be an option, since it's possible that the overlooked issues are what led to renaming being downvoted in the first crowner.

Edit: If anyone already figured out any ideas for what to put on a crowner if there are already ideas for how to solve the definition issues, please list them if/when they're ready. If we're not ready for that, that's fine as well. No rush.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Nov 14th 2023 at 4:06:46 AM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
StarSword Captain of USS Bajor from somewhere in deep space Since: Sep, 2011
Captain of USS Bajor
#42: Nov 15th 2023 at 1:10:22 PM

Okay, so we already agreed to split a trivium off to handle cases where a mainstream work's creator has a background in porn/hentai/etc. The other definitions we have are:

  • Aforementioned thing about a character in a mainstream work originating in an NSFW work
  • NSFW work is toned down in later versions. I believe this currently adequately covered by Bowdlerize and its subtropes such as Tamer and Chaster.
  • Possible In-Universe counterpart to aforementioned trivia article for where a porn creator moves to mainstream work

Did I miss anything?

Edited by StarSword on Nov 15th 2023 at 4:32:33 AM

GastonRabbit MOD Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#43: Nov 15th 2023 at 1:57:30 PM

I hooked a crowner with the first two options, as well as an option to rename if at least one of those options has consensus. The third could be taken to TLP or Yarded along with the out-of-universe counterpart we decided to split off.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Nov 15th 2023 at 4:00:04 AM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
SoyValdo7 I mainly fix indentation issues from La tierra de lagos y volcanes Since: Sep, 2022 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
I mainly fix indentation issues
#44: Nov 15th 2023 at 2:20:26 PM

I vote against the "character from a mainstream/SFW work originating from a NSFW work" definition because it happens so rarely. Not only in the sample but also in previous drafts of the trope. It seems that if a creator really likes a character and wants to revamp it from a NSFW work to a mainstream work, they would try to reboot the entire NSFW work rather than just moving a character or group of characters to a new work.

Edited by SoyValdo7 on Nov 15th 2023 at 4:47:13 AM

Valdo
MyFinalEdits Officially intimidated from Parts Unknown (Ten years in the joint) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Officially intimidated
#45: Nov 15th 2023 at 3:07:24 PM

Posting this comment to make public that I voted in favor of defining the trope as an NSFW work being toned down in later versions, and also voted in favor of a rename. I left the remaining option intact.

EDIT: I also voted against merging with Bowdlerise.

Edited by MyFinalEdits on Nov 15th 2023 at 9:50:27 AM

135 - 169 - 273 - 191 - 188 - 230 - 300
StarSword Captain of USS Bajor from somewhere in deep space Since: Sep, 2011
Captain of USS Bajor
#46: Nov 15th 2023 at 3:32:24 PM

~GastonRabbit, you jumped the gun: I didn't think we were actually ready for a crowner when I posted the definition list, and I don't think the currently leading option (ETA: by which I mean "later versions are toned down") is functionally distinguishable from Bowdlerize and its subtropes.

Though definitely agreed with dumping the name Bleached Underpants however else this shakes out.

Edited by StarSword on Nov 15th 2023 at 6:36:11 AM

GastonRabbit MOD Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#47: Nov 15th 2023 at 3:47:05 PM

I added a new option for whether to merge with Bowdlerise instead of rewriting so we can settle this. I'll bump the crowner in a bit, and probably also tomorrow.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Nov 15th 2023 at 5:48:20 AM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Nen_desharu Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire from Greater Smash Bros. Universe or Toronto Since: Aug, 2020 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire
#48: Nov 15th 2023 at 6:48:00 PM

Defining Bleached Underpants as a character in a mainstream/SFW work originating in an NSFW work can be misinterpreted as being a Demographic-Dissonant Crossover.

I downvoted this option as a result.

Edited by Nen_desharu on Nov 15th 2023 at 9:48:08 AM

Kirby is awesome.
StarSword Captain of USS Bajor from somewhere in deep space Since: Sep, 2011
Captain of USS Bajor
#49: Nov 25th 2023 at 12:51:41 PM

I'm working on a draft for the possible In-Universe trope of "former porn creator goes mainstream" since we seem to be going with the "adult content gets toned down in later versions" definition, but I still question what would be an example of a "later version" that isn't covered by Tamer and Chaster.

Also, unless there are objections, I'm preemptively stealing the image from here for my draft.

ETA: Draft is up under the working title Porn To Mainstream Switch.

Edited by StarSword on Nov 25th 2023 at 4:02:42 AM

SoyValdo7 I mainly fix indentation issues from La tierra de lagos y volcanes Since: Sep, 2022 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
I mainly fix indentation issues
#50: Nov 25th 2023 at 1:17:40 PM

Wait a minute, I'm confused. Didn't I Was Young and Needed the Money already address this?

Valdo

Trope Repair Shop: Bleached Underpants
3rd Dec '23 6:21:31 PM

Crown Description:

Consensus was in favor of renaming Bleached Underpants and defining the trope as an NSFW work being toned down in later versions. What should the trope's new name be?

Total posts: 95
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