Additionally, could we maybe discuss these edits from the Total Drama page?
- Designated Hero:
- Duncan, while the show doesn't try to hide the fact he's a bully, he keeps getting treated by others as the good guy up against the real villain. Particularly prevalent in All-Stars where there's his In-Universe Villain Decay leading to everyone (especially Chris) who keeps hailing him as a hero. - I think there's a chance this edit might be a valid example; just not certain if the bit about All Stars is natter or not.
- Designated Villain:
- Duncan in season five, given that Zoey is the only one willing to take his advice on Mal. Although Gwen knows he still cares about her, she refuses to listen to him, yet blindly trusts Mike, whom she is barely acquainted with. - I'm fairly certain Designated Villain only applies when the narrative treats the character like the villain, not when other characters in the story treat said character poorly. While Duncan is condemned narrative-wise, it's not for trying to warn others about Mal, but instead him taking things too far and blowing up Chris's cottage/mansion in order to regain his "bad boy cred" (and while Chris may be an Asshole Victim to the highest degree, that doesn't make what Duncan did any less of a serious crime).
- Heather in World Tour. She has become (if only slightly) more of a team player, and is actively trying to dethrone Alejandro but nobody wants to trust her after what she pulled in season one. Probably the best/worst example is when Leshawna knocked Heather's tooth out when Heather tried to explain that the new villain, Alejandro, was manipulating her. Even when Leshawna finds out that this is true, she still openly brags about attacking Heather and never seems to consider that it was completely unjustified. - While the bit about Leshawna attacking Heather is a valid criticism, it doesn't change the fact that, even if Heather Took a Level in Kindness (to a certain degree) (a) it doesn't make the fact that the other contestants neither like nor trust her unjustified; (b) Heather still does plenty of villainous things in World Tour, particularly in the Yukon episode, where she whips Courtney and purposely exploit DJ's (the contestant she's usually the nicest to) grief over his "animal curse" in order to give her team an advantage against Team Victory; (c) even despite all this, she is arguably the (anti-)hero of the finale. Like with Duncan above, I'm fairly sure that Designated Villain only applies when the narrative treats the character like the villain, not when other characters in the story treat said character poorly, for arguably justifiable reasons in Heather's case.
- Lightning in Revenge of the Island is immediately granted status as the new Big Bad after the season's original villains Scott and Jo are eliminated. He had certainly shown villain potential in the early episodes, but for the middle episodes was no worse than an arrogant Dumb Muscle with a fear of losing, and his level-up to hyper-aggressive combatant is sudden. It's implied that Jo's betrayal and Cameron's accidental-but-owned trickery are what set him off, but it's far from as clear a case as what sets off Zoey that same episode. - While Lightning's sudden jerkassery is a bit of an Ass Pull and arguably an Out-of-Character Moment, it doesn't make him any less of an asshole, nor diminish his intent to inflict bodily harm on Cameron, in said episodes
- Alejandro in All-Stars, who showed a fair bit of redeeming qualities as he shifts towards Anti-Hero status after discovering the greater evil that is Mal. However his heroic acts are rejected by everyone due to his history, and is continuously treated as the real villain up until his elimination. - Alejandro is not treated in a particularly villainous light in the episode where he is eliminated, nor is his elimination portrayed as an example of good triumphing over evil - it only allows Mal to get further in the game. Additionally, like with Heather, the other contestants also have plenty of reasons not to trust him.
Edited by WiryAiluropodine on Oct 6th 2023 at 3:19:10 AM
Angry babby
- I think Duncan is a valid DH in early seasons especially. I don't think the TDAS part is natter, but it could be fleshed out.
- Agree Duncan isn't really DV there, as he's meant to be seen as right about Mal and this coincides with his arc where he's turning into a "hero" against his will.
- I think the Leshawna and Heather incident is more Unintentionally Sympathetic for Heather, as Heather is generally the Anti-Hero of the season.
- Less sure about Lightning, but it does feel closer to Ass Pull.
- Agree on Alejandro not being a DV for simular reasons as Duncan.
Me again. Found this on the Assassin's Creed: Valhalla page. Not overly familiar with the franchise, so I thought I'd bring it up here;
- Designated Villain: King Aelfred the Great. Although he is King of Wessex and the Grand Maegester of the English Order of the Ancients, he doesn't really do anything "evil" beyond oppose the protagonists, which is perfectly reasonable when they're invading Vikings. He even outright despises the Order and works with Eivor to drive the last vestiges of the group out of the Anglo-Saxon kingdoms of Britain.
Worth noting that Aelfred's character folder lists him as an Anti-Villain, The Good King, and (eventually) a Friendly Enemy. Fairly certain the fact that he's a relatively sympathetic antagonist doesn't necessarily mean that it's wrong for him to be positioned as an antagonist to the protagonists in the main storyline (antagonists don't necessarily have to be dog-kicking villains, after all, they just need to be opposed to the protagonists).
Edited by WiryAiluropodine on Oct 9th 2023 at 1:04:04 AM
Found this example on the Don't Breathe page;
- Designated Hero: Rocky for many. Despite her moments of altruism, she is still a robber whose main goal is to escape with stolen money.
This one, I'm kind of unsure about. Like Llewelyn Moss, who I mentioned previously, it's clear that Rocky's not meant to be 100% sympathetic, and the film runs on Black-and-Grey Morality - though to such an extent that Too Bleak, Stopped Caring has been applied by viewers (if what else detailed on the YMMV page is any sign). She also still has enough sympathetic qualities (having an abusive mom, and a younger sister who she wants to get away from said mother, on top of trying to free Cindy) to keep her from being too unlikable. At worst, by the halfway point of the film at least, she (as well as Alex) are A Lighter Shade of Black compared to the Blind Man.
Edited by WiryAiluropodine on Oct 9th 2023 at 5:36:51 AM
Yeah that's a cut. The film doesnt really treat her as a hero, we just root for her because she is the protagonist and she doesnt deserve to be brutally murdered for her crimes.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Could I perchance get your opinions on both the Total Drama and Assassin's Creed: Valhalla edits (someone already handled the One Piece (2023) edit)?
Here with another query, this time concerning Friday the 13th Part VI: Jason Lives. In a rare occasion, it's for a (base-breaking) character who has both a Designated Hero and Designated Villain edit;
- Designated Hero: Sheriff Garris at the climax turns out technically to be this installment's Big Good Tritagonist when he tried to bravely and commendably fight Jason even if it painfully cost him his life, but earlier spent the most of his screen time as a Rabid Cop who gives a hard time for Tommy and even sometimes subverts himself as a Jerkass Has a Point even if his persecution of Tommy had some justifications due to his mental history.
- Designated Villain: Sure, Sheriff Garris had unjust bias and flawed judgment against Tommy and is unprofessional as sheriff, but his reason after hearing about Tommy's mental health record was still justified, especially the idea if his daughter with Tommy who could be dangerous can warrant some like-minded Anger Born of Worry.
The fandom seems to be pretty divided on this guy, given that he also has Alas, Poor Scrappy, Base-Breaking Character, Draco in Leather Pants, Jerkass Woobie, Strawman Has a Point, They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character and Unintentionally Sympathetic edits surrounding him.
Enda Mc Nabola
I propose this for the newest Disney movie.
Wish (2023): At the start Magnifico is sympathetic and makes some good points, even if he drifts into Not-So-Well-Intentioned Extremist territory. And Asha is a teenager who assumes she is correct and discounts the worries of her elders (not just Magnifico, but also her mother and grandfather). But the rest of film makes it out that Asha is correct, and Magnifico jumps feet first into full blown evil in response.
Edited by EndBringer99 on Nov 26th 2023 at 10:29:28 AM
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I don't really think he counts as this. Like from what I have heard, he literally tries to kill her and a bunch of other people and was already a self centered jerk before hand who spitefully took away her grandmother's wish just because she stood up to him. Also your entry really doesn't explain how is role as the villain is just "designated". Conversely, if it is about Asha, it still doesn't explain how her role as hero is just designated and doesn't really focus on her at all. It sounds more appropriate for his Draco in Leather Pants entry.
Edited by Bullman on Nov 26th 2023 at 12:37:12 PM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
YMMV.Thomas And Friends S 4 E 12 Steam Roller
- Designated Hero: Skarloey in the TV adaptation. He and the others make fun of Sir Handel's wheels, and when Sir Handel sticks up for himself, Skarloey makes a plan "to make Sir Handel see sense." He's treated as being in the right for this. In the book however, Skarloey made his plan after several days of Sir Handel being arrogant about it, which meant his need to be knocked down a peg made him far less of a Designated Villain.
Calling these engines "heroes" or "villains" dosen't feel right to me. Just seems like the person writing this only saw Black-and-White Morality, which early Thomas wasn’t known for.
Another problem I have with this entry is how it treats this episode like it happened in a vacuum. That part about Sir Handel "sticking up for himself" was his usual arrogance and pride that he demonstrated in previous episodes, and the other narrow gauge engines all latch on to this because they know what his response will be. Skarloey's plan to "make Sir Handel see sense." was to Break the Haughty.
Edited by PlasmaPower on Nov 26th 2023 at 5:37:46 AM
Thomas fans needed! Come join me in the the show's cleanup thread!
She / Her
These are listed on Characters.Danny Phantom Others:
Besides the fact Designated Hero is YMMV, do these entries count if they're moved to the YMMV page?
Dorbees: Making Decisions has this example:
- Designated Hero: Mr. Poe. He chooses to save Yogul, which would normally be a good thing, instead of ending world hunger or initiating world peace. No reason is given why he couldn't press either button or all three at the same time, making him come off as either an Idiot Hero or very selfish.
I'm pretty sure that was meant as an intentional joke rather than an actual writing flaw. I also moved another mention of this scene on the main page from Broken Aesop to Spoof Aesop since it sounded like a more fitting trope.
Konstruktor
I don't know much about Danny Phantom, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but given that the character page says he has a lot of hypocritical moments (that are Played for Laughs) and is generally kinda a bumbling idiot, I get the sense that the show doesn't want people to take Jack Fenton and his anti-ghost zeal at face value. So it kinda soft-condemns it, in a way? The accepting-Danny's-secret thing is apparently something that happens at the finale, so it seems like he's rejecting it at least somewhat? I might be stretching it here myself.
Bonnie's Artistic Cousin
Jack doesn't even get the chance to experiment on ghosts because he's completely incompetent and that's the joke. Everyone in Amity Park sees ghosts as evil and dangerous, which included Danny himself for a time. Jack is also not portrayed as heroic so much as he's just a Bumbling Dad with an obsession for hunting ghosts who cares deeply for his kids.
Same deal with Maddie, she's more competent than Jack but again she's not a bad person, just oblivious to the true nature of ghosts.
Also the mentions of The Guys in White and Valerie crack me up. As far as I remember, The Guys in White were bit characters for a gag, and Valerie was always portrayed as an Anti-Hero who acted very similar to Danny himself, except for the fact that she had a grudge against every ghost.
Edited by WarJay77 on Dec 11th 2023 at 5:27:42 AM
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
She / Her
(x3) It seems kinda like a stretch to me and your reasoning seems enough to cut it.
andOk thanks for your responses. I think I'll cut them both. EDIT: Done.
Edited by RandomTroper123 on Dec 12th 2023 at 9:20:52 AM
The Destroyer of Food
From Sly Cooper's YMMV page:
The Cooper Gang itself. Despite their reputation of only going after criminals, supplementary information, one-off remarks in the dialogue, and even cutscenes suggest that they (Sly especially) are perfectly willing to rob museums and private individuals if they have enough security to be a challenge (and/or it would annoy Carmelita), and even engage in petty theft as a form of recreation between big jobs. They also have no problems killing, best shown in Sly 3, where Murray gleefully feeds miners to a giant crocodile as part of Bentley's plan. Not to mention their recruiting people like Dimitri, former mafia boss and drug pusher, Penelope, who regularly cheated at dogfight flying competitions so she could win, or the Panda King, a former mass murder, into their group. Still, the games don't dwell on these incidents, and most fans ignore them entirely.
Alright, I personally did not play Sly Cooper in a very long time and I never played Thieves in Time, but I believe that this example is clear misuse. The Cooper Gang is one of the most beloved cast of Player Characters in all of gaming. In the many You Tube Sly Cooper video assays, retrospectives and Reddit posts I have watched over the years I never see complains that the Cooper Gang were too unheroic or unintentionally villainous. Very rarely I view grumblings about the whole Murray feeds miners to a giant crocodile as part of Bentley's plan bit but even then complains about it are so sporadic that a I am confident to say that it is very much a minority opinion. Plus, the example invalidates itself by stating that most fans ignore the Cooper gangs moral shortcomings and they are supposed to be Anti-Heroes anyway so of course they are going to do some unheroic things.
Permission to delete please.
Edited by TBJack on Dec 15th 2023 at 6:36:29 AM
Beware, I live!
Planeswalker
They're thieves, it's a given they steal things. Their targets are always a lot worse than they are. Cut it.
Oissu!
Konstruktor
From YMMV.Emperor Rise Of The Middle Kingdom
- Designated Hero: As any history major can tell you, many of the the rulers you're working for aren't looked back upon too fondly by today's historians, but when you're their loyal city administrator they are universally virtuous and wise. Also, as far as the mission briefings are concerned, anyone who isn't a part of China and doesn't serve the Emperor loyally is a barbarian and should not be trusted.
The second is also probably more Deliberate Values Dissonance. I believe it's shown as an attitude that people of the time and place held rather than something the player should adopt into their worldview.
- Designated Hero: Arguably, Aaron Cross. He is a semi-innocent man trying to survive, but demonstrates himself to be a fair bit more ruthless than Bourne is in trying to do that. In particular, he brutally beats three security guards to submission at the Manila factory, damages a lot of their equipment for a distraction, and knocks out the plant manager preventing his escape but steals his watch as an afterthought.
- Marta is basically a villainous scientist who happens to be on the wrong end of The Purge and was lucky enough to survive. Her job was to manufacture drugs for shady black-ops government assassins and she apparently didn't really question the morality or purpose of this until her co-workers were murdered and her life was in danger.
Does anyone think the two of them count, the word "arguably" definitely has to go.
Bonnie's Artistic Cousin
Indentation issue aside...
Aaron seems like he's just meant to be some shade of Anti-Hero. I mean it never says that the narrative portrays him as being especially heroic, and that's required here.
Marta meanwhile doesn't seem like she's supposed to be a hero at all. Again, the necessary context is missing.
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Just slashed it. By the way this section of DesignatedHero.Live Action TV is very long and lists pretty much every morally questionable moment by the Doctor and his companions:
- In Doctor Who:
- In "The Romans", the First Doctor ends up being unintentionally responsible for burning down Rome and this is treated as something to Squee about. It says a lot about how cleverly-written the episode is that it comes across as a genuine moment of celebration and a turning point for the Doctor's character, but think of all those people who died because of him!
- The First Doctor wasn't just gruff and miserly, he was often a dangerously reckless man completely at odds with what he would become in later incarnations (although as Ten would point out many years later to Five, despite having the appearance of an old man, he was by Time Lord standards actually a very young man merely playing at being old which does account for a lot). Some of the examples in addition to the above include nearly trying to kill an unarmed and unconscious man in the pilot before being stopped by Ian, intentionally sabotaging the Tardis on Skaro just so he could have an adventure and nearly get them all killed, and deliberately abandoning Susan without resources or equipment in the wastelands of the 22nd century post Dalek controlled Earth just because he wanted her to settle down with a man that she had only just met.
- The Third Doctor in "Invasion of the Dinosaurs" gets stuck as one due to a Broken Aesop. Throughout the story he attempts to persuade the Well-Intentioned Extremist villains that although their goals are noble, they are trying to achieve them by wiping millions of people from existence, and there should be another way. But then, instead of actually bothering to find or even propose another way, he just reverses their time machine so it traps them in the past. Notably, the novelisation hangs a lampshade on this by rejigging everything so Sarah Jane is the hero of the story, and having her go What the Hell, Hero? in her internal monologue about much of the Doctor's behaviour.
- The Sixth Doctor's most famous moment is strangling his companion in his first story, "The Twin Dilemma". Throughout the rest of the serial he acts incredibly cowardly and at one point decides to blame Peri (the above-mentioned companion) for everything; he never apologises or gets called out for any of this. The rest of his time with Peri can not help but invite uncomfortable similarities to an abusive relationship. On top of that he is one of the most violent Doctors. Thankfully the audios fix all these problems.
- The Tenth Doctor has a tendency to come across as a hypocritical, arrogant and egotistical jerk. His first story has him overthrowing the government because the prime minister blew up a spaceship of aliens whose leader had proven untrustworthy (he tried to kill the Doctor after promising to leave in peace) and would have likely gone on to decimate other planets. This leads to the Master becoming prime minister, followed by a government willing to send ten percent of Earth's children to a Fate Worse than Death in the spinoff Torchwood: Children of Earth! He also spends most of Series 3 treating Martha as inferior to Rose and whining about losing Rose — and his "no second chances" rule given to many one-off villains is waved for the Master and Davros, who have repeatedly shown to not want redemption. He also called his clone a monster for blowing up the Daleks (i.e. standard operating procedure for handling the Daleks since their first appearance) despite their being capable of slaughtering the universe. Finally, he spends most of his regeneration episode whining about how regenerating is an equivalent to death -- even though no past or future incarnation acts like this or any other Time Lord for that matter. And he gets angry at a man who caused his death because he saved someone else's life! Ten then spends the last few specials making clear mistakes due to hubris and Protagonist-Centered Morality, ending in him almost crossing the Moral Event Horizon (breaking one of the laws of time he's bound to protect, despite knowing this will have catastrophic repercussions). However, those last few specials were the character's saving grace, as both the Doctor and those around him agree that he's gone too far, suggesting that Ten had to "die" in order to atone for hurting so many.
- The Eleventh Doctor comes off as this several times in Series 6. In "The Almost People", he murders Amy’s clone to learn the original Amy's location after spending the entire episode berating miners for treating clones as disposable and less important than the originals. In "The Girl Who Waited", he erases an aged Amy from existence after making her believe he could save her.
- Rose Tyler is meant to be seen as really heroic and loving for crossing dimensions to find the Tenth Doctor in Series 4. Except the Doctor told her that coming back between worlds would destroy both, to which her reaction was "So?" She was able to cross worlds due to the Daleks' Reality Bomb collapsing the barriers between Universe, however her dialogue shows she was trying to come back before this happened. And for risking the destruction of two worlds so she could get to someone she loved, she gets her own, conveniently human, version of him (created by a massive Ass Pull) — she even kisses that human version of the Doctor right in front of the original!
- All this is even worse in the wake of the final episodes of Series 9, in which the Twelfth Doctor willingly goes through unspeakable hardship and to universe-risking extremes for similar reasons but is not treated as this trope — instead it's constant What the Hell, Hero? reactions, a My God, What Have I Done? realization, and losing not only Clara, but also most of his memories of her.
- In Series One, Rose also treats her boyfriend Mickey like he's invisible and ditches her mom Jackie to run off with the Doctor. And in "The Parting of the Ways", she periodically gives dirty looks to another girl that the Doctor had invited to come with them.
- In Series 2's "Tooth and Claw" when people are getting torn to pieces by a werewolf, Rose's main priority still seems to be winning a bet with the Doctor that she can get Victoria to say she is not amused. In that episode she can come across as a Nightmare Fetishist and it isn't surprising Victoria gets so angry at Rose and the Doctor for seeming to enjoy the horrific events.
- Lady Christina de Souza, the Classy Cat-Burglar from "Planet of the Dead". She is meant to be a heroic companion figure, but arguably nothing she does is particularly heroic — only self-preservation. She is introduced stealing a museum artifact and doesn't seem at all unhappy that her possible boyfriend gets arrested. Finally the Doctor helping her escape the police is meant to be seen as a great moment, and McMillian as an Inspector Javert for wanting to arrest her. However he was completely justified in arresting her. To add insult to injury, in Doctor Who (IDW) she still gets away with committing crimes after leaving Earth.
- Clara Oswald becomes one toward the end of Series 8. In "Kill the Moon", when the Twelfth Doctor leaves the fate of the Moon Creature — whose birth might destroy Earth — in her and humanity's hands, she overrules the votes of Earth and decides to spare the creature. Fortunately it doesn't destroy all, but she has no reason to think that it wouldn't. She and the episode are busy seeing the Doctor as in the wrong for trusting humanity to save it rather than just doing it himself based on his informed guess about the creature's intentions — an intended gesture of respect that comes off as condescending partially because he has No Social Skills. In "In the Forest of the Night", upon learning that a solar flare will burn the Earth, she rejects the proposition of the Doctor to save herself, her boyfriend Danny and a class of children claiming that she doesn't want to be the last human...without bothering to consult Danny and the children first! (So the Doctor's learned from his "Kill the Moon" experience, but she hasn't!) And while it's not surprising that over time she learns to be a Consummate Liar from the Doctor's example, where he primarily uses lies to put plans into action, she constantly lies to the Doctor and Danny about her relationships with both men simply because she's a Control Freak who wants things both ways. The kicker is the beginning of "Dark Water": after the sudden death of Danny, she attempts to blackmail the Doctor to save him by drugging him and threatening to throw the keys of the TARDIS in a volcano. She is understandably stressed at the time and the Doctor does call her out on her actions, but that's still nasty for someone we're supposed to see as The Woobie — and then the Doctor bends over backwards to help her. Remember, the Ninth Doctor kicked Adam out of the TARDIS for a far lesser crime.
- Also — she previously traveled with Eleven and was willing to die for him ( and did — perhaps millions of times over) even knowing of many of the horrible deeds of his past (i.e. the Last Great Time War). Then after he spent 1,000 or so years in lonely vigil on Trenzalore and received a last-moment reprieve from the grave that she had a hand in getting him, he regenerates into a Grumpy Old Man who has No Social Skills, a more pragmatic personality — and an identity crisis that he needs her help in working out. Naturally, she's promptly making rude comments about his appearance, slapping him, lying to him, temporarily abandoning him after "Kill the Moon" even though Eleven himself warned her that he desperately needed her friendship and support, and even betraying him. As it's established in "Mummy on the Orient Express" that she's addicted to having wacky adventures and thus can't give him up entirely, it comes off as her using him. She insists she isn't shallow, but she sure frosted up once he was no longer young, pretty, and charming. To make matters worse, while she and Twelve eventually become chaste sweethearts, consider her sendoff in Series 9: She tells him he must let her die and move on for the greater good, but doesn't simply go back to her death once he's been mind-wiped and she leaves him on Earth with his TARDIS — instead she decides to have more adventures in the second stolen TARDIS first.
- The show's treatment of the Twelfth Doctor usually averts this trope, so when it turns up in two episodes it's extremely noticeable. Both episodes happen to have the same writer, Toby Whithouse.
- In Series 9's "Before the Flood", he allows the villain to kill a woman simply to test a theory involving the order in which he and other characters seem doomed to die. (He's informed of this by his own ghost, which may be influencing his behavior.) After realising the next person to die is Clara, only then does he decide to step in and save everyone else. He does receive a What the Hell, Hero? speech, and it turns out to be Foreshadowing for him temporarily becoming a Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds a few episodes later when she does die but it still feels like the Doctor only intervened when someone he knew was about to die.
- Later, Series 10's "The Lie of the Land" has him becoming the evil Monks' Propaganda Machine when they Take Over the World, which means he has to take some responsibility for everyone imprisoned and killed over their six-month reign. This turns out to be because he has been deep undercover, with his life forfeit if they realized the truth, and was probably the best choice to make under extreme circumstances. Still, it undercuts his much-professed belief in the value of individual lives even as it's brought up later in the episode as his justification for not simply sacrificing Bill's life to stop the Monks (in fairness, Missy calls him out somewhat, but the people imprisoned by the Monks are not brought up specifically). On top of that, it is deeply psychologically wounding to his companion Bill, who ends up shooting him in rage, not realizing he can heal and that this was a Secret Test of Character, but she seems to easily forgive him when the crisis has passed. Of course, this may be because...
- Bill Potts herself qualifies as this between the end of "The Pyramid at the End of the World" and in "The Lie Of The Land". The reason the Monks are allowed to invade Earth in the first place is because she made a deal with them in exchange for the Doctor's life knowing the Monks invading Earth would be the price and explicitly against his wishes. The closest to her getting called out for this is a Secret Test of Character to establish she is not under the Monks' mind control, which ends up being why she shoots the Doctor in anger with intent to kill when the Doctor tells her why he sided with the Monks, despite being aware they have mind control powers and long before all the other options were used.
Goku Black
Isnt the doctor an Antihero in general. I uh don't think we're supposed to think every morally dubious thing he does is totally in the right when the show himself often calls hin out.
Also this one from the third doctor
". But then, instead of actually bothering to find or even propose another way, he just reverses their time machine so it traps them in the past." is not what actually happens in the episode. He tried to convince them to stand down by they tried to activate the machine and wipe out humanity so he reversed it.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Bonnie's Artistic Cousin
Same with the companions a lot. They're not infallible. They're people who have very intentional flaws
Edited by WarJay77 on Jan 7th 2024 at 5:56:46 AM
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Found this on the One Piece (2023) page;
Fairly certain this is misuse. Also not sure why the troper felt the need to put quotations around the word rescue (Koby definitely wasn't happy working for Alvida, nor was he doing it willingly. Plus joining the Marines was a choice Koby ultimately for made himself, regardless of the fact that the organisation as a whole didn't end up being virtuous as he initially believed it to be).
Edited by WiryAiluropodine on Oct 6th 2023 at 3:08:23 AM