So Bad It's Horrible Cleanup

Yeah, even when I first saw it I just thought, "this looks like literally any other generic preschool show". If it wasn't made by the Daily Wire and didn't copy Bluey so closely I doubt most people would even care.

I still stand that Leo & Layla probably doesn't quite cross the threshold to count if it has an audience (I can't imagine the IMDB scores would be as high as 5.1 solely out of anti-review bombing so I assume some parents support it), even if it's full of misinformation. Hillary's America was cut with similar logic. I also don't think "characters stand around and talk about history without enough jokes" is unusually awful for children's educational content, especially in an age of algorithm-driven schlock for kids all over Youtube.

Chip Chilla just looks mediocre. Being a blatant ripoff isn't enough to be SBIH and it seems competently produced besides that, agenda aside. I don't even think the conservative angle is super blatant in its content from what I hear? That one lesson sounds awful but that's one example, and even great kids' shows can have awful (or poorly-delivered) morals sometimes. If the animators suffered that's awful but that's not usually a deciding factor for SBIH, given even some really well-regarded works have awful working conditions.

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On another note, is Tokio Jokio bad enough? The entry focuses entirely on how offensive it is and mentions it doesn't have much plot, but unlike other entries on the page, it doesn't describe any animation issues, etc. If its lack of plot to frame all the offensive jokes is really damning by Looney Tunes standards, I'll gladly keep it, but I'm not sure if this stands out among the many other racist propaganda cartoons of the era, and a 4.4 on IMDB is sort of an edge case for our standards. The page seems to suggest Values Dissonance would mean it might've done well for its time when people wanted a national scapegoat.

Edited by mightymewtron on Mar 26th 2024 at 9:23:22 AM

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

Yeah, I'd probably say pull Tokio Jokio. Even with how offensive it is, it did what it set out to do, and did have an audience at the time. It's heavy Values Dissonance, but not to the point where it's meritless.

Orcus on His Throne will always be my pet peeve.

From Comic Strips:

• Between Friends is best described as a Lifetime Movie of the Week in comic strip form, but without any humor, intentional or accidental. It's even worse whenever it tries to be serious. Nobody with a Y chromosome escapes unscathed unless they're Viggo Mortensen or a reasonable facsimile thereof. All of the "empowered" women are depicted as insecure Does This Make Me Look Fat? types who switch between agonizing over buying a low-fat double-whipped frappuccino and pounding back cheesecake as though there's no tomorrow in the blink of an eye; they don't fare well either.

Is there any independent evidence justifying its inclusion? The entry doesn’t list any & I remember it having decently large circulation at the time.

Peace is the only battle worth waging.

I mean I did watch it (the short is public domain so it's free to watch), and I do feel the short is bad. Most of the gags related to the fake Asian accents or the Asian characters having buck teeth in a racist way, there aren't really any of the traditional Looney Tunes slapstick gags present. That being said, I feel like this is an example of offensive = horrible, as the animation is just fine, and the voice performances, while extremely racist, were likely intended to be an offensive stereotype and thus the acting is technically fulfilling its role. The racism isn't particularly unique for WWII propaganda cartoons though. There's also another Tunes short listed See Ya Later Gladiator that is noted to has a 5 rating on IMDB which seems more average.

Since Leo & Layla's History Adventures is supposed to be a documentary, the the official site policy is that its examples should be specifically about the technical and artistic aspects of the work, not the facts (or "facts") it covers.

The example does focus a lot on the show having poor animation and voice acting, but it was made to be watched for free on YouTube, so of course the budget and quality standards are going to be lower compared to something that's made to be sold.

If a work is right-wing propaganda, then to count as Horrible, it needs to be hated even by right-wingers.

From Video Game Generations: Seventh Onwards:

• Fast & Furious Crossroads was originally meant to release alongside F9, but once the movie was delayed to 2021 due to the COVID-19 Pandemic, it had to stand on its own, even with Crossroads also being delayed to a summer 2020 release. Despite being co-developed by the same company behind Project CARS, the game often looks and feels like a budget movie tie-in game from the early-mid 2000s. The game's barely existent plot feels incredibly rushed, with cutscenes that offer little to no context as to what's going on with characters disappearing and reappearing out of nowhere, original characters with little likability or personality to them who take up far too much screen time compared to Letty and Dominic Toretto, the primary character of the franchise,^note Vienna is just some Sassy Black Woman whose motivation becomes an insufferable example of Revenge Before Reason for two thirds of the game and gets a bit of background in only two or three scenes, the biggest backstory bomb dropping only at the very end of the game; Cam is an infuriating Creator's Pet, borderline invoked Canon Sue, intended to represent nonbinary people and fails rather badly at suchinvoked due to being a nigh-continuous, impulsive Jerkass to nearly everyone, including their own team, coming off as painfully passive-aggressive rather than charming, somehow able to solve problems that they probably couldn't (they placed a tracking device inside of Roman's car before the group dropped it off, despite Cam not even being there with the car when Dom met up alone with Roman - nor had it been established that Cam even knew enough of the plan to add their own failsafe, ergo the tracking device was just a total Deus ex Machina - plus, Cam is the one who defuses the bomb strapped to Roman, when it's apparently just a velcro belt packed with dynamite, therefore anyone else could remove the bomb, meaning that it's just yet more pandering for Cam) among other scenarios), and never receiving any comeuppance for their obnoxious behavior and is instead built up as Dom's apparent pupil, despite them having no past history with him or the family apart from somehow knowing Dom's deeds with no explanation; Ormstied is a Generic Doomsday Villain who wants to Take Over the World For the Evulz with no backstory to be told, having no charm beyond Bond Villain Stupidity and a giant Cool Tank; his son Kai being even less than that; and Sebastian is just there to drop exposition with a goofy accent and then die and uninspired voice acting, despite getting several actors from the franchise to reprise their characters. However, said poor acting may have been a result of the terrible dialogue ("I've seen a lot of backseats in my time, never thought I'd die in one!"), further highlighting the incredibly poor overall writing of the narrative. In one mission, you can hear police chatter which is so muffled that it's almost impossible to actually understand what they're saying. The gameplay is so mindnumbingly boring that despite the game doing its damnedest to convey any sense of speed, it still feels like a slog just driving from point A to point B. Most of the time, you hardly even have to steer, due to the lack of obstacles aside from the occasional fragile enemy car. The game is also teeming with physics glitches and foibles, to the point where even bouncing off of obstacles constantly proves to be a useful strategy, and a mere harmless tap against the wall can decrease your health (which could be disastrous if you have minimal health left). Civilian vehicles will more often than not accidentally ram each other with such force that it sends at least one of them flying across the screen. The cutscenes seem to be in-engine, but in the actual game they seem to be prerecorded, and they have painfully limited amounts of mocap despite the game also showing a mocap photo that doesn't match anything used in the cutscenes^note The worst offender would have to be almost every cutscene with Dom, where he walks in and crosses his arms in the exact same way, every single time without fail. Even with an admittedly spectacular finale, featuring Vin Diesel surfing on a space rocket, the road to get there is long and winding and full of issues. Critics were not kind, giving it scathing reviews and slamming the game for all the reasons listed above, along with how the game barely lasts 4 hours, including cutscenes, and was still released at full price, in addition to a season pass for online multiplayer content... that is, assuming anyone can play it online, as lobbies require 9 players minimum to even play^note (three heroes, three villains, and three cops), and the PC version barely had 8 players online at once a week after launch, and shortly afterwards the multiplayer became absolutely bereft of life. Critikal streamed the game in its entirety and held nothing back, later ranking the game at a 10% on his Moist Meter review and listing it as the worst game of 2020. Angry Joe also felt the same way, giving it a 2/10 instead. Yong Yea also had a rough time beating the game himself. Rerez also pointed out even more problems with the game that others likely didn't catch here. And for one last kick to the teeth, the game itself sold so poorly that after two years of action, it ended up completely removed from all available platforms.

Good lord, is this a gigantic Wall of Text! How should it be condensed down?

This is Idol Tap. (My Troper Wall)

Granted Leo and Layla technically has a story, it's just extremely threadbare. Like for example, Leo's teacher (who is neither seen nor heard, he's less a character and more a plot device) will do something "liberal" (like complaining about plastic being bad) and then they will go back in time to meet a historical figure (in this case the inventor of plastic) who will explain the virtues of the more conservative viewpoint. Also even though it is a Youtube series, Prager U is quite well funded, they could afford to make a higher quality show if they tried.

I feel like we discuss that game every so often and whether it qualifies or how much it needs to be cut down and yet nothing ever gets done about it.

I agree with mightymewtron, RallyBot2, and someoneman that L&L should be removed for these reasons:

• We cannot find examples of conservatives hating it, which is a requirement as SBIH requires the target demographic (and those adjacent to it) not to like it
• A 5.1 rating on IMBD is too high, proving that there is enough of a fandom, even if it's just over 50 votes and even if the positive ratings are from reverse review-bombing
• It is a YouTube series that is not monetized, given that PragerU is technically a non-profit despite having numerous rich donors ^note and is in fact a No Budget Anvilicious Political Correctness Is Evil Science Is Bad Eagleland Windmill Political Documentary of Lies Moral Substitute with Stylistic Suck and waging a War On Straw

Edited by Nen_desharu on Mar 27th 2024 at 9:02:28 AM

Kirby is awesome.

"To call them a conservative nonprofit is a bit too generous. They may be nonprofit in terms of bookkeeping, but their whole purpose is to act as a dummy organization meant to promote the ideologies that make the companies and political affiliates that directly line their pockets more palatable." — Comment from this video

Also, exactly how credible are IMDB ratings anyway? Because I would also like to dispute the removal of The Drawn Together Movie: The Movie from the Animated Films section.

Edited by Noah1 on Mar 27th 2024 at 9:59:51 AM

Never underestimate the importance of an open mind and compassionate heart.

Also, as discussed endlessly by now, it doesn't matter if something is monetized if the people making it are professionals.

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

My issue isn't really about an alleged amateur status of the work (because it's still an officially commissioned product uploaded by professionals). I just think it's only as bad as your typical propaganda piece is bad, without any evidence that it failed among conservative audiences. Again, Hilary's America was removed for the same reasons and that film won a Razzie. The fact it has a small sample size doesn't mean much for me because that argument works in both direction and not everyone who watches the show is the type to vote on IMDB about it.

I'm inclined to trust the middling IMDB/RT ratings on The Drawn Together Movie since I assume most review bombing would be negative due to Reviews Are the Gospel, whereas I believe casual fans would be likely to vote positively if they genuinely liked the movie.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

I did make a draft entry for Absoulte Proof though.

• Absoulte Proof is referred to as a "docu-movie" by director and star Mike Lindell, which makes sense when you consider there is no proof of it being a documentary. Based on Lindell's claims that the 2020 election was rigged against Donald Trump, the "docu-movie" uses false claims from untrustworthy sources (the data shown was revealed to be given by Dennis L. Montgomery, who is a software designer with a history of fraud). The guests interviewed in the movie are also not known or reputable, like "Mary Fanning", who only appears as a voice and has no presence outside the film. Even ignoring the false claims, the documentary itself is of low quality, as the formatting is amateur and more similar to a web show than a proper movie, with Mike rambling behind a desk, sometimes stumbling over and mispronouncing words and names. The editing is also poor, with frequent fade-outs in the middle of sentences, failure to crop software icons from chat footage, and poor sound mixing with music drowning out the voices sometimes. About the only "positive" thing was that the movie was not made for grifting as it was released for free on internet video sites (though many took it down for its false claims) and also offered a free DVD (minus shipping). The movie won two Razzies, Worst Picture and Worst Actor (for Lindell), and recieved a 2.8 rating on IMDB. Cinematic Excrement reviewed it here, and the only reason it felt it didn't deserve its Razzie (except for also being a 2021 movie winning for a 2020 show) was due to its flimsy status as a movie. When One America News Network aired the movie, they aired a lengthy disclaimer saying that Lindell paid to broadcast the movie, and that the thoughts expressed were his alone and did not reflect the network. Ultimately, Lindell's false claims led to a $1.3 billion dollar defamation lawsuit against him by Dominion, manufacturers of the voting machines.

That's a convincing writeup. I'll vouch for it counting.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

Likewise.

Peace is the only battle worth waging.

Thirded.

Orcus on His Throne will always be my pet peeve.

Yeah I have no objection into cutting this example.

For Professional Wrestling, is Gable Steveson's WWE run a good candidate? Not yet over, but with rumors of his impending release, his infamous match with Corbin, and having the worst reception with audiences despite the massive investment and advertisement, feels like a perfect example. Boo'ed even more by nearly universally hated Baron Corbin, his match deemed a worst of the year contender, and just the waste of how much they gave him.

"Are you the devil?" "Don't compare to me to those small fry" - Mir

Leo & Layla wasn't what everyone was voting on, but duly noted. Anyway, I give my to the Absolute Proof write-up!

Sincerely, Lumberwood

I want to get your guys' opinions on this. Do you think Beauty and the Beast: Belle's Magical World would qualify as SBIH? I have never once seen anybody try to defend it, even when compared to the other Disney sequels. Even as reviled as Mulan II and The Hunchback of Notre Dame II are, I've seen them be considered So Okay, It's Average at best by some, mainly because the former has good animation and good voice acting, whereas with the latter, Quasimodo acts in-character throughout, and Madellaine and Sarousch are considered okay enough characters, Replacement Scrappy status notwithstanding. With Belle's Magical World, the animation is even cheaper and uglier than Hunchback II, and the script bastardizes the Beast's characterization even harder than Mulan II did to Mushu, and I've yet to see anyone point out anything redeeming about it beyond some memetic Off-Model frames. Currently, it sits at a 4.8/10 on IMBd, and a 17% on Rotten Tomatoes. (It has a 71% audience score, but most of the listed audience reviews are 1-Star ratings wondering how it even achieved that)

Orcus on His Throne will always be my pet peeve.

Does The Walking Dead: Destinies belong here? I thought he game was considered So Bad, It's Good online from what I've seen. Like alot of let's players find it hysterical

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."

Enjoy the Story, Skip the Game is mentioned on the YMMV page, sio its not entirely ill-regarded.

On Horrible.Other, Willy's Chocolate Experience isn't really a convention, so I don't think it belongs there. It fits more with Holiday Events, although that folder would need to be renamed. Any ideas what to rename it to? Walk-Through Events, maybe? I dunno. I'd like a more-encompassing term so we can move McKamey Manor up from Misc as well.

It has a page in the Theatre namespace, so Theatre might be the page for it. It was added there once in the past, but removed due to being too recent.