Fixing a long list of PSOC articles

I'm a little unclear, are you arguing that Stock Joke is Not A Trope, or that Fly in the Soup is not a Stock Joke?

edited 15th Jan '15 4:54:08 AM by crazysamaritan

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

It has a function in the story. It's meant to be funny.

Check out my fanfiction!

I agree that Fly in the Soup is meant to be funny. In media, it is mandatory for flies in the soup to add a comedic purpose.

Sometimes, you just can't win them all.

I'd stick Stock Jokes under Garnishing the Story if anything- they don't serve any direct purpose, they're just making the narrative more interesting. It's a storytelling format and as such has its place.

edited 15th Jan '15 12:23:43 PM by Darksilverhawk

Rocks fall, everyone miraculously survives.

Denying you have a problem is strong evidence you don't understand it.

edited 15th Jan '15 11:23:07 AM by rodneyAnonymous

Becky: Who are you? The Mysterious Stranger: An angel. Huck: What's your name? The Mysterious Stranger: Satan.

at Cave Cat: Cave, you should understand one thing: you do not create tropes, you create the page. Tropers are supposed to catalogue tropes and sort them out, not to create a page on whatever comes into our heads.

edited 17th Jan '15 10:48:11 AM by XFllo

XFllo: Okay, thank you for that. I know that now.

Sometimes, you just can't win them all.

@#51 by crazysamaritan. To be strict, of "Stock Joke is Not a Trope, or that Fly In The Soup is not a Stock Joke" — I do not argue either.

Stock Joke is not defined (although imaginary definitions well could lean toward Not A Trope, yes).

Fly in the Soup is just a name given to the certain combination of few examples and description. Creator and defenders of the "Fly in the Soup" here confirmed it was intended to be a "Stock Joke". Meaning that the "dead horse trope"-"Fly in the Soup" is just a different thing. That different thing is what isn't a Stock Joke. >_<

edited 15th Jan '15 10:33:25 PM by NemuruMaeNi

"Stock joke" is defined by the English language. Read the words for what they mean. The words aren't made up with no meanings.

We're identifying tropes here. Tropes aren't "intended" to be one way or another. Pages are intended to cover tropes.

Fly in the Soup is a stock joke that exists outside TV Tropes, as it's a commonly used joke with many variations. Itself it's a variation of "waitor jokes" (although I can't say which came first, as the Fly in the Soup joke may have spawned the other variations, or Fly in the Soup was just one variation that happened to become more common than others).

Check out my fanfiction!

Stock Jokes are defined by this website: "Specific, standalone jokes that become common enough to stand as a pattern in narrative."

But really, we can boil down this discussion to a very simple question; ~Nemuru Mae Ni, given that several of us are willing to keep Fly in the Soup as a page, we should move to TRS to cut it. Do you think we need a TRS thread?

Current TRS list:

• Votes to cut:
  • Bug Splat — 4 votes to cut
  • Feud Episode — 3 votes to cut
  • Busy Beaver — 2 votes to cut
  • Who Are You Calling Names —
• "Unclear Description" tags
  • Absurdly Bright Light

Now, ~Septimus Heap gave permission to treat this as a sub-thread to their YKTTW check thread. Does that mean we can cut without TRS, given sufficient votes?

---

Revisiting previous issues:
@ Fox Hunting — So, Nobility Hunts Small Game and Prey Upon Our Sympathies (trope titles not final) are what we're discussing doing with it, although ~Prfnoff has an objection. Can you elaborate on why you think "X happens" is sufficient for a page? I think we're discussing an improvement to the current concept.

@ Bubblegum Popping — This is still on my radar, but I'm not sure what else to say.

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Encouraging discussion on And Your Reward Is Edible, Fairy Tale Episode, and Fool's Map. ~Darksilverhawk and I have given opinions (on first page).

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

Regarding cutting without TRS, if it gets enough votes I think it might work. Not enough votes on these items, I think. You might also want to post links to this thread in the discussion pages of the affected tropes.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Which tropes should be worked on next?

Sometimes, you just can't win them all.

At #60. TRS by now is heavily discredited in my eyes. Therefore, exerting effort to bring something to TRS would only be worthwhile, if it meant a chance of a reaction useful for understanding of the atmosphere and logical standards of the community. Right now, the outcome of potential discussion is mostly predictable, with likely nothing to be gained for me. And of course there's nothing to be gained from me either, since from the start you'd have to deal with earthrendingly implausible preposterousnesses such as "'Some things are often becoming common enough to be tropes' is not a definition of what 'Thing A' is."

At #59. Thank you, I'll group that sentiment with the one that said that "Everybody knows what Action Girl trope is about".

edited 18th Jan '15 10:57:48 PM by NemuruMaeNi

Who Are You Calling Names might need to sent back to YKTTW. It is a bit too specific.

edited 19th Jan '15 2:48:49 AM by Memers

But that one might get cutlisted since it's a Stock Phrase and those are no longer allowed. I created Who Are You Calling Names before the No New Stock Phrases rule was first established, as I said.

Sometimes, you just can't win them all.

People do look up when tropes were created most times...

Yes, that's true.

Sometimes, you just can't win them all.

I don't think we need it in it's current state, anyway; it's just a quote list. There might be some sort of insult trope in there, but I'm not sure there's anything there that isn't already covered elsewhere. I wouldn't be adverse to cutting it. (And "this isn't allowed now but was grandfathered in" is not an excuse for keeping it around)

Rocks fall, everyone miraculously survives.

I guess in a way, it does have a bit of Insult Trope thrown in as well.

Sometimes, you just can't win them all.

I looked at Who Are You Calling Names a bit more closely to see if there actually was a trope there, I see nothing that isn't already covered by Berserk Button, Insult Misfire, or Calling Me a Logarithm. It's just "people get upset when they are insulted," which as far as I'm concerned is a Grade A chair sitting.

My vote on that one is a straight cut.

Bubblegum Popping This one I might have made some headway on. I think we have two tropes here: One for an object (gum, tire, balloon, whatever) being inflated to the point of exploding and one for a character undertaking an action to clearly demonstrate they're not paying attention (chewing gum loudly, blowing a bubble, filing their nails, etc).

edited 23rd Jan '15 9:53:36 AM by Darksilverhawk

Rocks fall, everyone miraculously survives.

I agree with cutting "Who Are You Calling Names" as not a trope. It's a stock phrase, but it's not one that is firmly attached to a particular trop, so that it can be used a s flag for that trope.

I also agree that Bubblegum Popping looks like ^those two separate tropes mashed into one and that they should be separated.

edited 23rd Jan '15 1:07:42 PM by Madrugada

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.

Re: Fox Hunting: To paraphrase AnotherDuck, it has a function in the story. It's meant to be exciting. Turning it into a characterization trope about nobility is inappropriate because hunts involve a lot of people. (Also, foxes aren't traditionally classified as "small game.")

Re: Busy Beaver: A weak argument could be made in favor of this, but most the examples could just be lumped in with Animal Stereotypes. Some examples follow a pattern I think is specific enough to be tropeworthy: Beavers Always Give A Dam.

Re: Who Are You Calling Names: Yeah, I don't see much more than a stock phrase here. Some of the examples would probably fit under Volleying Insults.

edited 24th Jan '15 4:57:46 PM by Prfnoff

Fox hunting

• I've never heard of a fox hunt being a solitary sport. It always involves a group of people and a pack of hounds. Then there's falconry, boar hunts, and stag hunts. All of these require a certain social and financial standing in order to perform. "This is exciting" is a reason, but that is not the full pattern present in the fox hunting. I'm not exactly sure what counts as small game, but I've seen the "nobles hunt for sport" trope happening in several books.
  • The children chase the white stag during the resolution of The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe.
  • Discworld's Magrat had the old king who did lots of hunting, and now the only one left from that is Hodgesaaarg.
  • The rulers of Tortall are explicitly called out as not doing traditional hunting like most nobles do, making that a lampshaded aversion.

• Then there's the part of the trope where the audience is expected to sympathize with the fox, which I also see in the death of Bambi's father, and in the God of prey from Discworld.

edited 24th Jan '15 6:47:28 PM by crazysamaritan

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

It's true that it generally takes a nobleman to sponsor a hunt, but the nobility may not even be most of the ones doing the actual hunting.

Yes, that's exactly it. It can either be impossible (lack of tools) or illegal (see Robin of Locksley) for the peasantry to engage in those hunts without the nobles.

This is a stark contrast to the deer hunting and trapping, like what you'd see in American frontier stories.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.