Welcome to the Content Violations Discussion forum, where we discuss whether a work violates The Content Policy.
Remember that the forum rules apply here
, plus the following:
- You don't PM moderators about stuff pertaining to the policies, except for thread reasons;
- We tolerate links to scanlation sites unlike in the rest of the site due to its purpose, although it's preferred to remove them when they have done their jobs;
- The forum is not a soapbox for your own views on the policy or on morality. Please leave them at the door.
Violations of these rules can result in a ban from the subforum, or from the entire forum.
Otherwise:
Also, keep in mind that there are works that we don't want flagged without a really good reason as they are not likely in violation of policy:
- Is a film rated below "R" for U.S. distribution.
- Is a show that can be aired on prime time television.
- Is a video game that is rated below "M" by the ESRB.
- Is a written work that is sold in major bookstores without an "adult" or "mature" label.
- Is an anime/manga/etc. that is approved for U.S. import as a non-adult work.
- Is read/shown/taught in high school or below.
- Is in another format and meets equivalent criteria.
What we're looking for:
- Pure porn, or porn with an Excuse Plot only,
- Anything that has explicit underage sex,
- Implied sex of preteens or younger, and
- Fanservice intended to cater to pedophiles (lolicon and shotacon fanservice can count).
A couple of guidelines so the procedure can move smoothly:
- Do not list whole indexes or works just because they are on a certain index or have lolicon, H-Game or shotacon on their trope list.
- Do not list works you know nothing about without at least reading the trope page.
- Do not list works that you know are G-rated but you find creepy.
- If it's paedophile-pandering approximately how old are the characters involved? What happens? Is it graphic? Is it merely implied?
- List what objectionable content there is, and how much of the work consists of that.
- If it's entirely sex, say so. People have different ideas of what porn is. We all have the same idea of what a work being entirely sex scenes is.
- If you're not sure about a work, say so, or ask someone who does know that work. But don't make blanket accusations. Post here: "I don't know about this work, but the page says X".
- Google and Wikipedia are your friendsnote . Do a little digging on works you aren't sure about.
Also, in the case of H Games, there is this questioning to fill up:
- When are the sex scenes located?
- Are they spread out over the game?
- How much gameplay is there between sex scenes?
- Are they only at the endings?
- How hard do you have to work to get an ending?
- Are they in every ending? Every good ending?
- Are the sex scenes optional via a choice in the menu?
- Would the story make sense without them with minimal or no rewriting?
- Are the scenes made up of stills, or are they animated?
- How explicit are the sex scenes?
- This isn't a headcount. Your opinion is only considered if it explains in at least some detail how you came to the conclusion that the work is/isn't porn/paedopandering.
- When a moderator determines that the discussion has yielded a consensus, they can enact its conclusion/ask a moderator to enact the conclusion.
- The discussion is only about whether the work qualifies as porn or as paedopandering. We don't assess anything else in this process.
.
Q: Why is this happening?
A: Concerning the porn, it tends to attract creepy edits that have brought us into issues with the adservers while not significantly contributing to our core purpose - tropology. Concerning paedophilia-pandering, such works are just plain creepy to have pages about.
Q: What can I do to help clean the site?
A: You can flag content as unsuitable using the flag tool, which is located in the Tools menu to the right of each article, keeping the criteria in mind. Also, you can help enforce No Lewdness, No Prudishness across the wiki, possibly though cleaning pages listed in this Long Term Projects thread.
Q. This episodic work isn't finished yet. Shouldn't we wait for the ending before discussing it?
A. No. If released instalments may violate the content policy, we want to take action as soon as that's established — we don't need to wait for the ending. We can always revisit a decision to cut or keep once the work is over, but that point might still be years or decades away.
Q: This work is not actually/primarily pornographic. Why was it cut?
A: This could be for a number of different reasons. If the work was deemed to be paedopandering, for example, it will be cut whether or not it's actually sexually explicit. Being pro-paedophilia or pandering to paedophiles is bad enough, even if the work is nominally anti-paedophilia. Of course, it's possible that there was a mistake and then you should appeal it - please check the reasons first, however.
Q: This work is being/has been cut, but it is not a violation of the Content Policy. How do I make an appeal?
A: Flag the work page using the button in the sidebar and state your reasons for restoration.
Q: This work is pretty much pure porn, but it's really good porn. Can an exception be made?
A: Nope, sorry. If it's mainly porn, it goes.
Q: Why would you cut this? In [culture x], it is totally acceptable.
A: The vast majority of our readers come from the Americas or Western Europe, so we will be adhering to what could broadly be termed "Western" standards. This means we will not be permitting works which sexualize 12 year olds, and nor will we be demanding that every picture of a woman on the site must wear a burqa.
Q: How can you possibly claim to know authorial intent? (Roland Barthes is my co-pilot.)
A: It is not important what the authorial intent was, only the outcome.
Q: Wikipedia have articles on all kinds of awful stuff. Why can't we do the same?
A: Wikipedia is a strictly academic site. They have to cite sources and a "no censorship rule". They also do not aim to be Family Friendly, and are not reliant upon third party ads for funding. Conversely, one of our stated aims is to celebrate fiction, and our generally light, non-negative tone is a reflection of this, which has led to much more gushing about inappropiate content.
Q: So should I take every article here as an endorsement of whatever it describes?
A: No, of course not. We have pages on Greedy Jew, Adolf Hitler and Mein Kampf after all. However, if we choose to focus our attention on schoolgirls' thighs or porn, it does reflect very poorly on us. Fan Fic Recommendations are a slightly different issue. If a work is recommended there, this should be taken as an endorsement by the troper who wrote it.
Q: Are we allowed to make forum threads about works processed by the Content Violation Discussions forum?
A: If it was voted "clean and keep", a forum thread is relatively safe as long as it is restricted to talking about the clean parts. Anything with a stronger judgement is discouraged on the forums.
Q: Where can I find decisions regarding a work?
A: They are linked from the discussion page. Sometimes the old list of content reviews or the thread list in this forum can help as well.
Q: I still have some questions/concerns.
A: We will be happy to answer them. There is a thread for this.
- Guro: Violence played for titillation. (contrast Gorn)
- 5P or P5: The panel that administered the policy prior to the review system being overhauled in 2022. See 5P.
- P(a)edoshit: Older term for "P(a)edopandering", deprecated for being inflammatory.
- Porn: A work mostly concerned with sexual arousal. Having NSFW or explicit scenes doesn't automatically make a work porn — it's when showcasing explicit scenes is the entire point of the work.
Also, questions about the policy can be asked here. They will be added to this thread's FAQ section once answered.
Edited by Mrph1 on May 5th 2024 at 6:00:30 PM
It's also worth noting that most everyone disagreed with his decision to ax it.
The P5 usually does not review works beforehand but based on their past discussions I believe that Blow Job would pass, the Green Door one would not and the Alice one sounds like a maybe. Hope that helps!
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Stupid Google ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Thanks for the information. I'll see what I can do with the information delivered.
The Wordnomnom
So...im not sure what thread to ask this in so im just gonna ask here and if it gets moved then im sorry for having put it in the wrong spot.
Why is primarily text-based interactive porn like Atlach=Nacha or Katawa Shoujo given a pass but other porn like say Shoujo Sect or Small Favors is removed? My guess is it has to do with the amount of storytelling involved in relation to the amount of sex but I did want clarification. Or is it about artistic merit (Delta of Venus being an example of little real plot in an erotic work but relatively high level of artistry) perhaps? This is why I had to ask.
Back in 2012 or so my head about exploded when a few things (I think Lolita was one of them) disappeared but some came back and I realized Wikipedia had much less strict moral standards and I could always find them there (albeit without that ol' TV Tropes magic and humor). Still, looking back over what goes and what stays, it seems like porny games get more leeway than non-interactive porn and I was wondering why.
I was about to hit 'send' when I realized my four examples at the top are 75% in one genre and 25% 4chan. Please don't judge me too harshly for knowing about these things.
edited 20th Aug '14 5:29:23 PM by Stormthorn
While the breath's in his mouth, he must bear without fail, / In the Name of the Empress, the Overland Mail.
No, the other one.
Well, of those I only recognise Katawa Shoujo, which isn't so much interactive porn as it is a visual novel with a few scenes of porn in it out of hundreds, and you can censor those few scenes if you want anyway. There's just way too much actual plot for the porn to disqualify it from the site. Same goes for a lot of visual novels, since there's often so much story in relation to porn that we accept them here.
Check out my fanfiction!
Katawa Shoujo only contains an insignificant amount of sexual contact. I think you can even toggle if off if you don't want to see it. The difference between it and something like, let's see, The Sagara Family is whether or not you would want to read it if the sexual content wasn't there. Nobody would find reading Katawa Shoujo for sexual content alone work the time investment whereas for the latter example there's basically nothing to it at all but sexual content.
Those are the easy examples. The difficult cases are cases like when it's hard to distinguish if it's supposed to be porn or if it just happens to have a lot of sex.
Edit: And to be completely honest, the rules may not be 100% consistent. People are doing the best they can to make a reasonable website without tossing out everything people want to actually read about.
edited 20th Aug '14 7:44:32 PM by Arha
The inability to make a clean and hard line between porn and not porn to pass automated judgements is why we have a committee after all. Blanket unthinking response did not work.
edited 20th Aug '14 11:00:13 PM by Marcach
Dread Sorcerer of Auchtermuchty
It's mainly what our sponsor (Google) tells us is unacceptable. And SJW's from across the Internet are partially responsible for some of it. People who legitimately wanted the site to stop having so much porn and people gushing about how hot Laharl-Sama is (who I'm not counting in the above SJW mention), along with people who have a vendetta against this wiki for things real (they've been banned or even google bounced) or imaginary (using second hand sources that are not always reliable).
edited 21st Aug '14 10:05:55 AM by TheOneWhoTropes
Keeper of The Celestial Flame
Self-thumped for not adding to discussion.
edited 21st Aug '14 11:20:44 AM by DoktorvonEurotrash
Sorcerer in training
The P5 have to keep in mind not only whether it's porn with an excuse plot or pedo-creepy-stuff, but whether Google will have another hissy fit if the work goes through. It's no wonder that in the past they've either wished they were old enough to drink, or put their livers in severe danger while reviewing some of the crap.
And when was the last time we said thank for their work? Thank you. 
![[awesome]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/minis/award_star_gold_3.png "[awesome]"){kind=small}
Anime Disco Inferno
Okay, I have a question regarding content policies and how they may apply to an upcoming fanfic I am outlining right now and once I finish writing it, I wish to make a tropes page for it.
I want to make it clear that this fanfic has NO sexual content or anything that could be considered pornographic, but it has one thing that might be an issue and could be misconstrued as gushing, so I want to get it cleared by the P5 before I start fully composing the fanfic and making a tropes page for it.
Okay, the basic idea for this fanfic is that it is a Massive Multiplayer Crossover Fusion Fic based primarily off of the Old World Of Darkness, specifically the very first editions of Vampire The Masquerade and Werewolf The Apocalypse, where the cast of characters are various anime and video game characters re-interpreted as vampires, werewolves, and other denizens of the World of Darkness, both human and supernatural. Content wise, the fic itself is probably a PG-13 or a soft R rating at the absolute worst. But that's not the issue.
The issue is that one of the supporting cast members in this fic is originally from a hentai anime that was purged from this site, BUT in my fic he has been given a Bleached Underpants treatment and cleaned up to remove any sexual material. Despite the fact he is getting cleaned up, I am worried that his mere presence would constitute as gushing and make my fanfic ineligible for TV Tropes. Hell, I'm worried that by just asking this question and voicing my concern, I could get banned for gushing just by mentioning this idea.
The vast majority (as in 99.999%) of the characters being crossed over into this World of Darkness fanfic are from works that are acceptable for this site and even have trope pages, but there is the one character (and he is the only one) who is from a work that got banned from this site and he's a mid-tier supporting character that has some important roles to the plot (but is not super-crucial to the plot. He's a B-List character rather than an A-List character in the story). However, I am worried that even if I give him the Bleached Underpants treatment, it would still constitute as gushing and get me banned from the site and make my fanfic ineligible, so I ask for the rules clarification.
I really don't want to break any rules and I want to make it clear that I support the purpose of the P5 and do my best to abide by the site's content policies. Hence why I ask this question to make sure if I'm okay or not.
The character in question is Amano Jyaku from the utterly abominable piece of shit titled The Legend of the Overfiend. I personally think that the anime itself is god-awful and artistically worthless and I am glad it was purged from the wiki, but I like Amano's appearance and character design (even though I don't like the source material he originated in), and I think he'd look cool as a Gangrel vampire. Essentially, I'm making him an O.C. Stand-in by giving him an actual personality and a Bleached Underpants treatment (as he is in the Old World Of Darkness and not his source material's universe).
Please don't think I am gushing because I am not, I just want to make sure I'm following the rules when I post this fanfic and subsequent tropes page. Hell, if it helps, I can just make an OC that has a similar appearance to him and it wouldn't be that much different to the plot, if that helps.
I just want to make sure if I'm in a gray zone or if I'm breaking the rules or not. I don't want to break the rules, and like I said, my fanfic is intended to be work-safe (aside from some action violence and language that wouldn't be too out of place in a PG-13 film). But I want to make sure my bases are covered.
Hell, once my fanfic is up and running, I'll let the P5 review it just to make sure we're in the clear.
And if this character being included does break the rules, then I will remove him from the outline and make an original Gangrel vampire that has a similar appearance to him, and it wouldn't affect the storyline at all. The only reason I didn't use an OC is because the gimmick of the fanfic is "All-Star Crossover Cast in the World of Darkness".
edited 25th Sep '14 2:16:25 PM by PaulieRomanov
So you are worried because you took a character from a hentai into another work?
A mere reference to something is not a reason for cutting or even flagging, in my mind.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Anime Disco Inferno
Whew, that's good to know. I just get worried because the source material Amano Jyaku is from is one of the works that led to the Second Google Incident back in 2012.
Still, I just wanted to be better safe than sorry.
TV Tropes' Sonic Wiki Curator
I'd be fine with that. Just taking and repurposing a character from a policy-violating work isn't inherently flaggable so long as the new work isn't itself a policy violator.
Experience has taught me to investigate anything that glows.
Anime Disco Inferno
Again, thank you for the clarification. I do legitimately feel relieved. After all, I do support the content policies of the wiki and I did not want to violate them.
Turns out I didn't, so yay!
edited 25th Sep '14 2:24:14 PM by PaulieRomanov
TV Tropes' Sonic Wiki Curator
You're welcome. Good luck with writing your story.
There's a Young Avengers fanfic that has about 3/4ths of a chapter out of 7 with Billy and Teddy having sex and making pop culture references. It's pretty explicit, but the objective seems to be to show a relationship milestone rather than being porn. So it's not so much that the author wants to excite us. She just gives zero fucks about discretion. Is it okay to post something like this in the fanfic recs list? It really is a good fanfic.
You'll have to describe the characters for us to gauge. It doesn't sound like porn (to me; I am not on the 5P team though) but it may fall under underage sex rules.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
They're even older than that in the fic. Both are in their 20's. Thanks guys! Oh...but the sex chapter comes with some naked fanart.
edited 2nd Oct '14 6:06:20 PM by FullmetalHeart20
Sorcerer in training
Don't link directly to the fan art, or to a specific page it's on. NSFW are pretty much not allowed, as far as I know.
Coming back to where you started is not the same as never leaving. -Terry Pratchett
No longer a forum herald
Minor question, since a single example doesn't really warrant a page flagging.
Would it be okay to cite the content policy in order to cut the Hustler's Taboo example off of Magazine Decay? Because I'm pretty sure we don't need an example largely dedicated to, um...urination fetishes. Yeah.
Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)
Even if not cut, it can use being rewritten to be less Too Much Information.
| *Hustler's Taboo was published to show off the various fetishes that would not "fit" into the traditional Hustler (BDSM, Latex, Smoking, Foot Fetishism, etc.), and to celebrate it. Until it published an urolagnia pictorial and caused fans of said fetish flock to it in droves. This resulted in a sales bump, which led to heavier focus on it, much to displeasure of the rest of their readerbase. |
edited 3rd Jan '15 1:09:24 PM by Adannor
Again, Caligula wasn't a P5 decision. The site owner said so on that one and he doesn't seem terribly inclined to budge. We had nothing to do with that particular case. As for the other films, our stance in the past has been that we don't preemptively review pages.
"Polite life will fill you full of cancer." - Iggy Pop "I've seen the future, brother, it is murder." -Leonard Cohen