Pull Zero Context Examples to discussion. These questionable examples too.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
I've been saying for a while that this trope needs criteria like Amazonian Beauty.
No, the other one.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
As in some kind of In-Universe signifier?
I would definitively be OK with an In-Universe qualifier.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
To avoid it being solely In-Universe, we also allowed Fanservice Tropes, and Attraction Tropes to be criteria.
edited 17th Aug '12 6:03:34 AM by KingZeal
I am fine with both.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Yea, In-Universe only not gonna work, especially when most of the in-universe examples in this trope seem to be about characters who's attractiveness is played in a comedic or "no normal person would be attracted to that" manner. I don't think they belong here. So I'm just gonna pull those and all the questionable examples to the discussion.
edited 2nd Sep '12 10:35:44 AM by captainpat
If there are no in-universe examples / examples associated with Attractio N Tropes, this isn't a story trope. It's just a type of real-life woman that real-life people find attractie and that sometimes appears in fiction.
edited 3rd Sep '12 6:22:17 AM by Routerie
Does the attraction tropes index require that its tropes solely be about in-universe attractions? If so I still don't see a problem with a fat female character where fanservice or The Beautiful Tropes are used in her portrayal.
edited 3rd Sep '12 12:36:12 PM by captainpat
We need to be able to draw a make a distinction between this and the Fat Girl trope,also does this cover morbid obesity?
Zzzzzzzzzz
It covers anytime a big woman is presented as being attractive either in spite of or because of her size. We aren't going to start trying to sort by "how big" should count.
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
Yea, the description for this trope could use a rewrite. It specifically says " She isn't sexy despite her full figure, she's sexy because of it." and there's too much focus on how the character feels about her body and her attitude. This should be about portrayal.
edited 11th Nov '12 11:49:40 AM by captainpat
Alright, all of the zero context examples and questionable examples have been moved to the discussion. I have to agree with King Zeal about a criteria for this trope since an attractive fat female means a lot of things to different people.
I second that King Zeal fellow. He seems to know what's what.
Lol. @ captainpat - As for your earlier question, does the Attraction Tropes index require that its tropes solely be about in-universe attractions?, the page says "Characters are drawn to someone for some reason" so yes, in-universe. As for the possibility of this being fanservice, they would have to make it clear that she's proud to be fat so she still comes off as sexy to the audience.
I think it's important to remember that this goes hand in hand with Chubby Chaser.
I don't think this is that closely related to Chubby Chaser since most cases of Chubby Chaser are about mocking a character taste in women. Also, I don't think a character's opinion of her body has much to do with this trope, that's what Fat Girl or Fat and Proud are for. As long as it's clear that the work is presenting her figure as attractive it should fit in this trope.
Bump
I went ahead and cleaned the wicks for zero context examples and questionable cases.
The description for this trope definitely needs to be rewritten as it overlaps with Fat and Proud.
edited 19th Dec '12 10:29:03 PM by captainpat
Here's a revision of the first paragraph that I did.
Namely, what I changed was to address the unilateral and bilateral concerns of the trope: first, is the woman someone the audience would find attractive, and/or, secondly, is she presented as equally as or more attractive than thinner women In-Universe? As with Amazonian Beauty, the only ways to tell are if certain tropes (Beauty Tropes, Attraction Tropes) are used to their full effect. For example, does it show off her beautiful eyes as it would a Hollywood Thin woman? Does the camera pan on her cleavage or her rear? Does her size or plumpness get played for disgust or for titillation?
These are all objective tropes, as it's what the work uses to characterize her. What the Audience Reaction is doesn't matter.
The Big Beautiful Woman, or BBW for short, is a subversion of Hollywood's usual standards of size and beauty and is accompanied by Beauty Tropes or Attraction Tropes which draw attention to her assets with equal or greater Fanservice or Male Gaze than thinner women in the setting, and without any blatant irony. She's also not used as a Foil to make other characters look more attractive or to act as a Token Minority as in the case of a Pet Homosexual or Bromantic Foil (a raunchy best friend that demonstrates how well-adjusted or advantaged the Protagonist is). Even if not the protagonist herself, she may be part of the Beta Couple or a Breakout Character. Her weight may not even be (and, in most cases of the trope probably won't be) the basis of her beauty or attractivenessnote ; attention may instead be drawn to her beautiful eyes, feminine features or, more blatantly, her breasts or posterior—but regardless, she is a knock-out.
edited 20th Dec '12 10:29:24 PM by KingZeal
Much better.
I made another slight change by adding a note.
Just checking but this should be on Attraction Tropes, shouldn't it?
Yeah. Probably its Spear Counterpart as well.
Ok second time. Previous thread
This trope has pretty bad problem with zero context examples and questionable examples that feel like "fat women tropers find attractive" and not "fat women portrayed as attractive".