Five-Man Band cleanup

Ninja'd. Yeah, I know that Jayne is a guy so there are two girls.

There being two girls allowed makes a lot more sense, so I'm going to have to go with that one. I mean, if you can't count the original Power Rangers then... yeah.

edited 7th Jan '15 5:34:08 AM by Larkmarn

There are two major problems with attempting to trope Firefly's "original" crew.

1. It's attempting to cover a period of time that occurs "off-screen" and therefore is based largely on personal interpretation and guesswork due to it pre-dating (and mostly being outside) the scope of the show. The closest we can get to it is the flashback episode that details how Mal meets all the pre-Episode 1 characters which carries its own set of problems for this trope (particularly defining "original crew") as follows.

2. The current members of the ship did not join together, they all have staggered joining times. Mal and Zoe, then they hired Bester, then they hired Wash. That was the original crew. That's what got them flying and living the lifestyle we're introduced to in Episode 1. At some point down the road (we don't know when), they meet Kaylee whereupon Mal fires Bester and hires Kaylee on the grounds that Kaylee's a much more competent mechanic than Bester. Some point further down the road, they run into Jayne and take him on. Some point even further down the road, they take on Inara as a paying passenger. Eight months after Inara joins, Episode 3 of the show occurs (and we don't know how much time passes between Episodes 1 and 3).

There's one other problem. Firefly's creator was pretty clear that he regarded the ship itself as a "character" which is why the flashback episode doesn't just show how the crew came together but also how Mal met the ship.

I don't see how claiming "original crew" for a period of time that's out-of-scope for the show itself is anything other than shoehorning, especially as it involves cherry-picking which characters to involve by conveniently ignoring the "original" crew issue (which could either be the ship's original crew (3 men, 1 woman, no Kaylee or Jayne) or the crew that pre-dates, but is introduced, in Episode 1, conveniently excluding Inara as being "not crew", if you go back in time more than eight months (in-universe) before the start of the show). I've also mentioned previously that I believe Wash is being shoehorned into The Smart Guy trope, and, while Mal is The Leader, he's not The Hero.

edited 9th Jan '15 6:18:46 PM by Wyldchyld

^ That. Well said. Everything that I was thinking but couldn't figure out how to articulate.

May I suggest an example from Lupin III? (I know it's a weird example since technically there are four members in Lupin's gang, the L Man himself included, but this tentative example is assuming that their adventures center on five people: the thief, the Femme Fatale, the gunslinger, the samurai, and the guy who's chasing them.)

• The Leader: Arsène Lupin III - The protagonist and the leader of a gang of international thieves.
• The Chick: Fujiko Mine - The Femme Fatale who constantly double-crosses Lupin and yet has feelings for the guy.
• The Lancer: Daisuke Jigen - The level-headed marksman who wears a grayish blue outfit, which contrasts nicely with Lupin's red or pink jacket.
• The Big Guy: Goemon Ishikawa XIII - The samurai who deals with problems by using his Zantetsuken to slice up unworthy objects.
• The Smart Guy: Inspector Koichi Zenigata - The policeman charged with chasing the Lupin gang who, for all his failings, knows his enemy well enough to be able to predict him.

That's seriously shoehorned. First, the cop chasing the gang isn't a team member, he's an antagonist. To qualify as a Five-Man Band, the five—not four—members must routinely work together as a team, with each member contributing in a specialized way. There's simply no way to include a major antagonist. (The Inspector doesn't really sound like The Smart Guy in any case.) Second, there's more to The Chick than just being female. It's not clear how a Femme Fatale could also be The Chick, because those tropes don't really overlap, and repeated double-crossing is most certainly not a Chick trait.

Although the general rule is that tropes are flexible, FMB is an exception. Its definition is very rigid as a matter of policy.

Yeah, Lupin doesn't count at all.

Zenigata occasionally works with Lupin in an Enemy Mine situation, but sure as hell isn't part of the team.

Hell, Fujiko isn't part of the team. She's more of a drop-in character. The real "team" is just Lupin, Goemon, and Jigan.

Ditch that Lupin entry. Not an example as written.

I'm moving stuff off hyphenated titles, and the only things I have left after a number of example pages for works who have had their trope page split, is subpages, including Five-Man Band subpages. Is it OK to move them off the hyphenated titles and then ask for a lock on the pages?

Yes. Ask for the discussion pages to be moved as well.

Supposing I were to verify whether proposed examples of the YKTTW presently known as Sailor Moon Squad (though that may change depending on what's decided in any crowner on the name) are actually examples thereof, would I do so here or create a dedicated thread elsewhere in the forums? (Keep in mind that I created Sailor Moon Squad in response to a suggestion earlier in the thread, not to mention misuse of 5MB that led to the tightening of standards on what is and isn't a 5MB, so SMS does have a connection of sorts to 5MB; and yes, I also expanded the YKTTW to incorporate magical girl trios as well as quintets in response to accusations of The Same But More Specific which sparked intense debates in the comments section.)

edited 25th Jan '15 11:47:31 AM by ryanasaurus0077

That is a different trope and would merit its own thread.

And where in the forums would I create this new thread, considering the intentions I had stated in my previous post regarding said thread?

This forum, Long Term Projects. It may or may not attract interest, depending upon how popular that trope is going to be. The discussion pages might be good places as well.

From Rookie Blue

• The Hero: Andy
• The Lancer: Gail
• The Smart Guy: Chris
• The Big Guy: Dov (adernaline junkie)
• The Chick: Traci
• The Sixth Ranger: Nick

3 females (Andy, Gail, Traci), 6 members (although Nick is a late edition and can be eliminated), They're all the Hero , Chris is not The Smart Guy. actually I don't think anything fits

^ Sounds like Not An Example to me. Cut away.

chop chop

I would argue that Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. fits, at least before the repercussions from The Winter Soldier kick in.

• The Hero: Coulson. Leads the team, levelheaded, a mastermind for good, generally warm and kind.
• The Lancer: May. Cool, controlled, direct contrast to Coulson personality-wise, always the first to take issue with his plans.
• The Big Guy: Ward. The muscle, experienced field agent, always the go-to for brute strength.
• The Smart Guy: Fitz Simmons. Yes, it's two people, not one, but Fitz and Simmons are pretty explicitly The Dividual and function as one unit, to the point where they're often treated as one person by both the narrative and the other characters.
• The Chick: Skye. The Naïve Newcomer, the kindest and most idealistic of the team, and the baby sister that everyone wants to protect.

(No idea if this has been proposed before — if so and it was vetoed, feel free to just link me to the post.)

Even if the FMB rules allow a Dividual in one slot, your example doesn't explain what makes Fitz and Simmons The Smart Guy.

Whoops. Though your tone could have been nicer.

They're the team's Omnidisciplinary Scientists — Fitz in engineering and technology, Simmons in biochemistry — and the go-to for answers, fix-its, etc. Coulson mentions that Simmons "has two Ph Ds in fields I can't even pronounce", and they were both the youngest graduates of SHIELD's science and technology academy ever — where you have to have at least one Ph D to even be admitted.

Agents of Shield has been brought up and shut down before. I believe the reason was that the genders were too evenly balanced to count in the classic model. Personally, I don't mind, but you need to change The Hero to The Leader to have any chance at all of counting.

This was on FiveManBand.Video Games A To C:

BlazBlue

None of those people even work together. Rachel occasionally talks to Ragna but never anything more than that. Noel barely knows any of them but Jin. Jin and Hakumen are sworn to kill Ragna on sight...

How is this a Five-Man Band?

edited 24th Feb '15 9:48:09 PM by wrm5

If it's the case that they aren't a team and don't work together, it's not a 5MB. Remove it.

It's obviously not an example if The Lancer and The Big Guy are sworn to kill The Leader on sight.

I can't remove it, the page is edit-locked.

I just went to remove it, but Septimus had already got it.