Misused: People Sit On Chairs get usage counts

Total posts: [128]
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[up]Wholeheartedly support.

edited 15th Mar '12 12:17:43 PM by SeanMurrayI

102 SeptimusHeap15th Mar 2012 12:17:40 PM from Zurich, Switzerland , Relationship Status: Mu
Another Wizard boy
Fully agree. That redirect is far wider than what People Sit on Chairs is. It could simply become an index/explanation for PSOC, Trivia etc.
103 Madrugada15th Mar 2012 12:29:42 PM , Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
I think that's the best way to handle it. Make it the administrivia "why this isn't a trope, or why it doesn't warrant a page" index.
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
104 shimaspawn15th Mar 2012 12:34:24 PM from Here and Now , Relationship Status: In your bunk
It's certainly far too broad a topic to be limited to just a redirect to PSOC.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
105 DragonQuestZ15th Mar 2012 01:09:01 PM from Somewhere in California
The Other Troper
Make a ykttw for a Super Message under that name.
I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
106 SeptimusHeap16th Mar 2012 08:14:26 AM from Zurich, Switzerland , Relationship Status: Mu
Another Wizard boy
I took the liberty of going through the wicks of People Sit on Chairs, and changed a few of them to Omnipresent Tropes as it was the more accurate context.

A few questions:
  • Acceptable Breaks from Reality: Probably intended to be valid, as anything that's not an acceptable break can be considered mundane and not for story purposes. However, there are many tropes that are completely realistic, so it's not accurate. In other words, correct use of the trope, but the meaning of the sentence itself is inaccurate.
  • Casual Kink: Sort of meta. It would be PSOC in-universe, but that fact in itself is the trope. The way I interpret it is something like, "it's something completely normal without any specific value attached to it." However, in-universe there aren't any story conventions, so it might be wrong.
  • Press Start To Game Over: Correct use.
  • Rinne no Lagrange: Sinkhole, or a literal interpretation of it. Or pun. Or some kind of more or less witty aversion where sitting on chairs has a meaning.
  • Sliding Scale of Animal Communication: Correct use.
  • Sphere Eyes: It just doesn't make sense. The description of what an inversion is included. Nor the reason to limit it like that.
  • YMMV.The Magic Flute: Think it's correct too.
  • The Power of Creation: I think it's correct. Just creating something with mundane means doesn't have a meaning in itself. Like someone building a chair.
  • Characters.WAOA High School AU: Incorrect.

edited 16th Mar '12 11:34:30 AM by Feather7603

The Internet misuses, abuses, and overuses everything.
108 Madrugada16th Mar 2012 11:53:53 AM , Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
The Magic Flute example is a perfect use. "The use of triads in Western music has no significance in and of itself".

edited 16th Mar '12 11:54:05 AM by Madrugada

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
109 DragonQuestZ31st Mar 2012 04:49:05 PM from Somewhere in California
The Other Troper
Launched No Trope Is Too Common, and tweaked the first line in People Sit on Chairs, because it contributed to the misuse, by claiming it was a general "not a trope" message, not a specific on.

EDIT: I also think we could make a message about listing the purpose of a trope.

edited 31st Mar '12 4:49:52 PM by DragonQuestZ

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
What's left on the todo list?
The Internet misuses, abuses, and overuses everything.
111 SeptimusHeap1st Apr 2012 01:15:49 AM from Zurich, Switzerland , Relationship Status: Mu
Another Wizard boy
So, what we now have to do here is to decide on shimaspawn's suggestion of repurposing Not a Trope to an index/explanation page.
112 DragonQuestZ1st Apr 2012 12:39:00 PM from Somewhere in California
The Other Troper
[up]I agree. We need Not a Trope to be a separate page.
I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
113 HersheleOstropoler7th Apr 2012 06:45:55 PM from BK.NY.US , Relationship Status: Less than three
You gotta get yourself some marble columns
I'm pretty sure I saw that proposed ages ago, it's about time.
The child is father to the manOedipus
114 SeptimusHeap8th Apr 2012 03:34:20 AM from Zurich, Switzerland , Relationship Status: Mu
Another Wizard boy
Does anyone have a possible writeup for Not a Trope?

[down]Yes.

edited 8th Apr '12 8:49:34 AM by SeptimusHeap

116 DragonQuestZ8th Apr 2012 09:58:20 AM from Somewhere in California
The Other Troper
[up]For People Sit on Chairs. Too Rare to Trope seems to also cover things that might be a trope, but literally don't have enough examples yet, although later on enough might happen to turn into a pattern.
I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
[up]I take that as it's meaningful enough to be a trope, but there's no pattern of use to it, so it's not actually a trope. It's a single event, which may by coincidence have happened once or twice in other places.

It's like one work using the colour yellow to represent power and blue the lack of power. It's meaningful in its own work, but unless it's actually used to the point where it's a pattern it's not really a trope, or a convention.
The Internet misuses, abuses, and overuses everything.
118 DragonQuestZ8th Apr 2012 11:26:11 AM from Somewhere in California
The Other Troper
[up]That is precisely what I mean. So it's used as a trope in one instance (specifically a potential Sub-Trope form of Rule of Symbolism), which is literally too rare to count as a trope we put on this site.

edited 8th Apr '12 11:26:46 AM by DragonQuestZ

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
I can't really think of a definition of Not a Trope other than just copying on People Sit on Chairs and Too Rare to Trope.

Something along the lines of:

"Everything that happens in various media is not tropes. A lot of things simply don't have any meaning to them, and just happen because the laws of reality are followed, or just events that just happen to further the plot, but have no meaning outside that. There are also some things that do have meaning, but there's no pattern of use in other works that makes it a storytelling convention.

"On this site, we also have things that aren't strictly tropes, but are still treated as such. Game mechanics is one such example. There are also areas where we have interesting information, like Useful Notes or Trivia, but these are not tropes at all."

Better than nothing, but can be improved a lot. Or not used at all, if someone writes something better.
The Internet misuses, abuses, and overuses everything.
120 SeptimusHeap21st Apr 2012 02:51:09 PM from Zurich, Switzerland , Relationship Status: Mu
Another Wizard boy
Seriously, this died.

So, what goes on a Not a Trope page? Complaining, Too Rare to Trope and People Sit on Chairs.

Not everything in stories has a meaning and is a trope. These things are not by themselves page- or tropeworthy:

Compare Audience Reactions and Trivia, which are interesting facets of storytelling but not tropes. Contrast Omnipresent Tropes and Universal Tropes.

This is my idea for Not a Trope, but the description seems a little forced.

edited 21st Apr '12 2:51:24 PM by SeptimusHeap

121 SeptimusHeap22nd Apr 2012 03:44:06 AM from Zurich, Switzerland , Relationship Status: Mu
Another Wizard boy
[up]On a second thought, should Not a Trope be split into page-worthy and not-pageworthy stuff? Like:

Not notable

Not a trope, but still notable
122 peccantis22nd Apr 2012 04:03:01 AM , Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
the flies will find you
StockPhrases perhaps?
before the darkness arrives
123 SeptimusHeap22nd Apr 2012 04:19:34 AM from Zurich, Switzerland , Relationship Status: Mu
Another Wizard boy
I've written up a sandbox: Not a Trope

Still needs tweaking, I'd say.
It's a good step forward, though, and it does work as it is.
The Internet misuses, abuses, and overuses everything.
125 SeptimusHeap23rd Apr 2012 05:23:10 AM from Zurich, Switzerland , Relationship Status: Mu
Another Wizard boy
Added a new line about The Same but More and The Same but More Specific to Sandbox.Not A Trope.

Needs review, or is it already launchworthy?

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