Premature launch, three example and one wick: Half Robin Hood

This trope was created sometime in the Fall of 2011, judging by the edit history. The trope description is actually pretty good, however I'm unsure if it is sufficiently distinct from Loveable Rogue.

The YKTTW is right here. There was barely any response.

My concern is that the trope has only three examples and one wick, and that one wick is on an index.

Should we:

1. Merge with Lovable Rogue
2. Send it back to YKTTW to collect more examples
3. Simply add it to Tropes Needing Examples and hope Wiki Magic does the trick over time.

edited 15th Feb '12 6:05:45 PM by Catbert

Looks distinct enough for me. This is a thief who's sympathetic because he only steals from the Asshole Victim*

, so it's like a Pet the Dog thing. Loveable Rogue is a lot broader, so they're not gonna be the same.

I think we can bounce it to YKTTW for examples*

.

edited 15th Feb '12 12:08:33 PM by troacctid

Rhymes with "Protracted."

Also, I should have mentioned this in my OP: What do people think about the name?

I would support something less oblique like Steals From The Rich...although I'm undecided on whether it should be extended to "Steals from people who deserve it". I guess that would depend on the examples it gathers.

Rhymes with "Protracted."

Meh on the name. Too much like Just Like Robin Hood or something. Agree on needing more examples.

Perhaps Only Steals From Villains?

edited 15th Feb '12 12:20:36 PM by Deboss

Fight smart, not fair.

I kinda like "Robs from the rich, gives to himself" but that's more a laconic that a title.

It seems to me that this focuses on the unlikablity of the victim, while Loveable Rogue focuses on the likability of the thief. However, Loveable Rogue does include a line saying "it helps that none of their victims are anyone we know or that they've made sure the audience knew they were jerks, which makes it "okay" to steal from them."

For ease of discussion, I'm posting the full defintion of the trope here.

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Robin Hood stole from the rich and gave to the poor. Some thieves follow his example completely. Others only do the first part. This trope is about the latter.

A Half Robin Hood is a thief who steals from a rich person for selfish reasons. What distinguishes a Half Robin Hood from a run-of-the-mill thief is the target. The target will always be wealthy and will usually be unlikable. The target might be a thief himself. Expect stories of how he made his fortune by stealing, scamming or extorting money from poor, middle-class or even sympathetic rich people. Also expect a few Kick the Dog moments just to make you really not like this guy. A Half Robin Hood will never steal from those who are poor or honest.

Unscrupulous rich people are widely considered Acceptable Targets in fiction. The Half Robin Hood's actions are "justified" because they're being done to an Asshole Victim. This turns the thieves into heroes for whom the audience can cheer more easily. If the thieves are themselves poor, the story might contain implicit themes of class conflict.

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edited 15th Feb '12 12:33:04 PM by Catbert

Catbert,

I definitely agree with that being the distinction between the two tropes. That part of Loveable Rogue's description seems to me to only indicate that his or her victims are sometimes unlikable, not that they must be, and it does not necessitate that they be particularly rich either which Half Robin Hood does.

edited 15th Feb '12 5:43:32 PM by LouieW

"irhgT nm0w tehre might b ea lotof th1nmgs i dont udarstannd, ubt oim ujst goinjg to keepfollowing this pazth i belieove iN !!!!!1 d

Adding a crowner here.

Does the top option really need a crowner? I thought that you didn't need to ask for permission for adding such a page to Tropes Needing Examples and Pages Needing Wicks.

edited 16th Feb '12 6:38:41 AM by SeptimusHeap

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

You don't need permission for that. But since that option includes "Do nothing else", I'm going to let it stand.

edited 16th Feb '12 7:38:50 AM by Madrugada

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.

Couldn't the examples just be rewritten and folded into asshole victim? since Asshole Victim is implicit in this tropes definition, every example of this could go on the other page, for example

The team from Ocean's Eleven target two unscrupulous casino owners and a thief.

could become

The unscrupulous casino owners and a thief that the Ocean's eleven crew targeted were asshole victims.

It strikes me that most thieves steal from the rich because the poor don't have anything worth stealing.

Apart from the occasional lampshade ("I steal from the rich and give to the poor: ME, because I am poor") I'm not sure if "stealing from people who have something worth stealing" is a trope.

Rhetorical, eh? ... Eight!

Agreed, it should be restricted to "stealing from people who deserve it" rather than "stealing from the rich". A character belonging to this trope would never steal from a nice rich person.

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.

Karmic Thief?

Rhetorical, eh? ... Eight!

To me, this is essentially Only Steals From Rich Asshole Victims which means that all examples would be covered in Asshole Victim.

I think you can find a lot of examples of thieves who never get the chance to make a big heist, but simply take what they can get. I think that, barring other variables, it will always be more acceptable to the audience for a thief to steal from someone who can afford it than someone who needs that money to live.

With a Karmic Thief trope wouldn't the next locigal step be Karmic Murderer, Karmic Rapist, etc.?

edited 23rd Feb '12 1:38:45 PM by Godnat

I swear to God there used to be a really witty sig here.

Technically, we already have a subtrope of Karmic Murderer: Serial-Killer Killer. EDIT: And I do see some shoehorning of "victim was just guilty/evil in general" on that trope, too.

edited 23rd Feb '12 1:44:42 PM by ccoa

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.

Actually yes.

Aside from the Serial-Killer Killer, there's several murderers from slasher movies that only kill people who deserve it (for a possibly-twisted value of "deserves it", such as Death By Sex) and there's also the trope of a rapist who gets thrown in prison and raped himself by the other inmates, which I think falls under "karmic justice" or at least under Eye for an Eye.

Supertrope time?

Rhetorical, eh? ... Eight!

Point taken.

Wouldn't Pay Evil unto Evil be the Supertrope?

edited 23rd Feb '12 2:01:48 PM by Godnat

I swear to God there used to be a really witty sig here.

What about Caper Rationalization, Justified Criminal, and Sympathetic Criminal? How would people say this compares with those tropes?

Calling the crowner. Rename and send back to YKTTW. Locking crowner.

Okay, any ideas on a new name?

Bump. This still needs to be done. Anyone have any good ideas for a new name?

Throw it on YKTTW with a working title, and see if it can garner one there?

The only thing I can think of is the aforementioned Karmic Thief.

edited 9th Mar '12 9:41:31 AM by ccoa

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.

This has been sent to YKTTW under the working title Karmic Thief. Please contribute suggestions for improvement and examples on the draft.

I would like to get some feedback on the draft. If no one has any issues, I plan on launching withing 48 hours, so we can get this closed.