Redundant: Purposefully Overpowered

Basically I see this trope as redundant. It just says that certain elements that are supposed to be powerful to begin with are powerful. It strikes me as an unnecessary trope, I don't think no one needs to be told again that the Infinity +1 Sword is the most powerful sword in the setting, we have the Infinity +1 Sword page to tell us that.

It's about how certain things are deliberately made to be Game Breakers in order to serve a narrative purpose. Sounds tropable to me.

But the problem is that the description is already covered by other tropes. A Infinity +1 Sword is supposed to be overpowered. The Bragging Rights Reward, most times, is supposed to be overpowered too. The 11th-Hour Superpower the same. Those things are always superpowerful by default, so it's not strange that they are that way.

Do we need a trope to say that? Any example in the page can be found in one of the other pages, so this trope seems pretty redundant.

edited 2nd Jan '12 2:02:43 PM by DrMcNinja

So it's a supertrope. Nothing wrong with that. If there aren't any examples that aren't covered by subtropes, then maybe we should make the page exampleless, but I don't think we need to cut it completely.

I don't think there are subtropes enough for that, and sincerely, I still think it would be pretty redundant. In any case it's still an option we could use. I'd like to hear more opinions before acting. Leave it without examples it's something pretty much needed no matter what happens.

I just read the definition, and it appears to be written as Game-Breaker, but intentional. That leaves a lot of room for speculation; how do we know they did it on purpose?

edited 2nd Jan '12 6:13:21 PM by MyTimingIsOff

I see it more as "the designers created a very powerful Infinity +1 Sword/11th-Hour Superpower/Bragging Rights Reward, intentionally". And that is something that comes with the definition of these tropes. They are supposed to be powerful, the designers creating them like that isn't strange at all, because that's how they work.

That's why I say that the trope is redundant and feels unnecessary. The examples are just a mix and match of the tropes mentioned in the definition.

There is a real trope here. The problem is that Game-Breaker is a subjective trope but somethings are purposefully made to be game breaking. For example, Marvel vs Capcom 3 lets you play as SNK Boss Galactus, completely unaltered, in some versions. He makes the game very easy to win, the entire SNK Boss trope is about making something overpowered on purpose. The eleventh hour weapons you get in Kirby games often take any thinking and strategics away in the few cases you're allowed to take them back to earlier levels, this is explicitly intentiional. Many a Bragging Rights Reward is something completely game breaking completely on purpose.

The solution here? Keep this page, cut Game-Breaker. Then we are only left with objective pages, Good Bad Bugs for accidents, Purposefully Overpowered for what was meant to be.

At the very least, all examples that aren't backed by Word of God should be removed.

Not really. Game-Breaker has nothing to do with this trope. There are things that the designers just didn't expect. Good Bad Bugs, some combinations and other things can become Game Breakers that the designers didn't put in the game.

This trope, on the other hand, just says "this things, that are supposed to be powerful, are powerful". No shit Sherlock, what did you expect from your 11th-Hour Superpower, the Splash attack from Pokemon?

edited 3rd Jan '12 3:25:22 AM by DrMcNinja

Just because it's obvious doesn't mean it's not a trope. I think you're emphasizing the wrong thing, anyway — it's not just "things that are supposed to be powerful are powerful", it's "these are things that are powerful deliberately" (as opposed to something like Game-Breaker, which is generally the result of poor balance or a Good Bad Bug).

I dont know this seems to really have a purpose here, as in they are Overpowered but there is a plot important or gameplay important reason why they are overpowered and it deliberate and usually directly stated in the work. (or limited in use, like banned in multiplayer or Boss Rush etc.)

IE say Lu Bu in Dynasty Warriors in which the game goes on and on and on on how Bad Ass he is from is victory quote "WHO ELSE SEEKS DEATH?!" and the Meme warning "DON'T PURSUE LU BU" if not playing him. The Game builds him as a Bad Ass without equal... and you know what he is.

That doesn't make the trope any less redundant. The designers know that the Infinity +1 Sword has to be powerful, and they design it that way, because otherwise it wouldn't be a Infinity +1 Sword. This trope is like saying "the new traffic lights in the street were deliberately made red, yellow and green". Of course they were. They HAVE to be that way.

And it wasn't me who brought Game-Breaker to the discussion, I just explained why it's different from this trope.

edited 3rd Jan '12 7:33:49 AM by DrMcNinja

It's a supertrope. It will overlap with a lot of other tropes. That's by design; it's not a reason to cut it.

I don't know why you insist with mentioning cutting. If you check my posts you'll see I never proposed cutting the trope.

Well, you keep mentioning how it's pointless and redundant, so I figured you wanted to get rid of it. If you don't want to cut it, what do you want to do with it?

I didn't know exactly what to do, I wanted to hear some opinions before making a decision. I think it could be made an index for tropes that are powerful by design. It would be just expanding its meaning so it's not limited to videogame tropes. For example, God-Mode Sue, Reality Warper, Heart Is an Awesome Power and many more. But as it stands right now it doesn't explain anything the other tropes can't explain by themselves.

Still cutting wouldn't be that wrong either. But if it can be rescued then we might try and do the effort.

edited 3rd Jan '12 8:42:41 AM by DrMcNinja

Bump, opinions?

I support a supertrope, not cutting or anything that is being proposed along those lines.

So it's a supertrope. Not seeing a problem here. *shrug*

What I propose it's making it an index for every trope that goes with the definition "has power to serve the plot", and put here every trope where great power comes by default.

As it stands right now it's only "the designers of the game have made this things that have to be powerful powerful". That is redundant and already explained in other tropes. The examples are found in any of the other tropes, having them here serves no purpose

And I NEVER said to cut it (just that it wouldn't be wrong). Don't put those words on my mouth because I didn't say it.

edited 6th Jan '12 8:57:22 AM by DrMcNinja

No, I said cut it, cut gamebreaker that is. What a gamebreaker is should be obvious. Something that breaks balance in a game that's supposed to be balanced. As it stands, fans being what they are, it is a subjective page. If we honestly can't decide what a game breaker is then we shouldn't be cataloging them. Dumbing nonworking tropes in the Darth Wiki is just half baking, we should cut it.

Purposefully overpowered is something we can agree on by contrast. I'm saying the "redundant pages" that don't work need to be put on the trope repair shop before those that do. So the 11th-Hour Ranger, gets listed on purposefully overpowered, so does the Infinity +1 Element(really uninspired title). They both also get listed under game breaker. Cut the subjective page, less redundancies on the wiki, complaint addressed.

So, you're suggesting to cut the Game-Breaker page because you think fans can't agree on what in a game counts as "OP?"

I mean, yeah, if we were talking a multiplayer game, you'd have a point (unless it was something, like a weapon or a strategy that everyone else used to the point where it shut out every other way to play).

Anyways, as for the Purposefully Overpowered page, it mentions the Super Gravity Gun from Half Life 2, which you pretty much are given in the storyline. As a matter of fact, the description and some other examples seem to be inclining the definition towards "Infinity +1 Sword that you need."

edited 8th Jan '12 1:48:51 AM by RocketDude

Except that's not the problem. A Game-Breaker is not always something that should be powerful. Tactics to get a lot of money is NOT something the designers create on purpose, that's something the players discover. Programmers don't create the Good Bad Bugs that let you go up several levels in a few minutes.

A Game-Breaker is something that destroys the balance of the game and makes it stupidly easy, something the designers didn't expect to work as well as it does (games are supposed to be a challenge after all). Something Purposefully Overpowered doesn't, because the designers create the game knowing those things are powerful and they serve a specific purpose.

Crissaegrim from Symphony Of The Night is a Game-Breaker because you can obtain it soon enough to annihilate multiple bosses with it. Same thing happens with the Shield Rod / Iron Shield combo. On the other hand the R.Y.N.O from Ratchet And Clank is NOT a Game-Breaker, because you can't acquire it until the end of the game, when there's almost nothing left to complete (the Final Boss, that is). It only becomes a Game-Breaker when you go to New Game Plus. The Celestial Weapons from Final Fantasy X are the same, because you only have to face 2 bosses by the time you can obtain them (and one of them is an Anticlimax Boss to boot, Seymour Omnis. Their purpose is facing every Bonus Boss in the game with a chance to beat them.

That's why I want to make this page an index or supertrope for every trope where having power is something the creators had in mind and that power serves a purpose in the work, because the current definition of Purposefully Overpowered can be found in any of its subtropes, and the same happens with the examples.

edited 8th Jan '12 2:55:05 AM by DrMcNinja

Bump.