Fixing zero context examples

They were all index entries or potholes; not a one of them was a trope example. I'll revert them pending an expansion effort, however. (I know nothing about the show, or I'd take a whack at that too.) EDIT: done. I'll leave it alone now.

edited 26th Mar '17 1:59:27 AM by Theatre_Maven_3695

Just took a look at the page for Ed Sheeran, and I think the page could use some maintenance. I've already corrected a couple minor grammar issues and elaborated on some Zero Context Examples, but it looks like there's still some more work to be done.

For one thing, there are quite a few ZC Es that I'm not even sure are correct. How is "Don't" an example of Your Cheating Heart when Sheeran explicitly acknowledges that he and the subject of the song were never actually in a relationship? ("And I wasn't looking for a promise or commitment/ but it was never just fun and I thought you were different")

Even more bafflingly, "Don't" and "You Need Me, I Don't Need You" are both listed under Piss-Take Rap, even though Ed Sheeran's "rapping" (which is actually just singing with a hiphop-esque cadence and flow) isn't played for laughs in either song. The latter is also listed under Long Title, which, if you ask me, is kind of a stretch.

I don't know, am I right to be concerned about this? And if so, are there any Sheeranites here who could help me clean up the page?

edited 26th Mar '17 1:02:13 PM by TyeDyeWildebeest

What do y'all think of "Zero Context" works in indexes? I am referring to this post and wondering if the commented-out index items should be put back. Most genre-related indexes I've come across just list the titles, so I don't think it's "zero context." I usually only see "context" if there is something unusual about the inclusion on the list...

Context is always nice, but on a pure index I'd say we can get by with just the name. I certainly wouldn't gut the page by commenting out every entry that was just the name of the work/person/trope.

I've been wondering about this as well and was about to bring it up in ATT. On one hand, the page ist also a trope — and the page type is set as 'trope' — but on the other hand, it almost functions as an index (though it does not do any indexing, actually, though I think it maybe should?) of works in that genre, and personally, I find it weird to go to a genre page/index and find out that anything without context is commented out. It seems weird, somehow.

Concerning the page type: The "genre" aspect is a trope in a way. It's just that "genre" is functionally an index as we use indexes here on TV Tropes. "What index is Mondegreen in? Language Tropes." "What genre is Harry Potter in? Fantasy."

So. If it's a genre index, you don't have to explain how the work fits into the genre?

This does seem to be at odds with the usual way we handle tropes (a genre is a trope, after all) but if we want to allow "genre" to be an index rather than a trope page, we can do that. For the record, I'm not in favor of doing this.

edited 27th Mar '17 4:22:07 PM by Ramidel

No, you don't have to explain how it fits into the genre. But adding a very brief synopsis of the plot is helpful.

A genre index isn't a trope, either. "A genre" isn't a trope. It's not a tool used in the process of telling a story, it's a category of type of story being told.

edited 27th Mar '17 4:34:46 PM by Madrugada

@Tye Dye Wilde Beest, I don't know the artist enough to add context, but to make a small start on Ed Sheeran, I corrected some indentation issues, changed a Trope to a better fitting one, and removed that "Long Title", which wasn't remarkably long at all.

Also, that line in his description that his music is "depressing", doesn't seem at place here. I've never seen such comparatively subjective descriptions on other TV Tropes music artists' pages.

edited 28th Mar '17 1:41:36 AM by LB7979

Thanks for the help! You even caught a couple of flaws that flew under my radar (like the editorializing in the main description).

Before I continue with the cleanup, do I have permission to either delete or comment out the other ZC Es I mentioned?

edited 28th Mar '17 12:26:02 PM by TyeDyeWildebeest

You may always comment out ZCEs on trope pages without asking for permission.

For Indexes —ask, some don't require additional context, although context is always nice.

For Tropes which are also indexes — ask.

If you find that doing so leaves an empty folder (or worse, an empty page), comment out the folder notation as well or, in the case of a blank subpage, mention it here and ask if it should be cut or not.

Alrighty then!

Can You All take a look at Characters - Home on the Range please. Because almost every entry there is a Zero Context Example.

Plus, there's 5 characters listed separated by folders but only 1 character's image appears and it's unclear which character this is.

edited 30th Mar '17 7:09:17 AM by Madrugada

Ugh Off-Topic but I have no idea why there appears a space within the word "Home" on my aforementioned link to "Home On The Range". Really thought I had [Wiki Word]ed it correctly; no idea what can be wrong?

edited 30th Mar '17 5:57:37 AM by LB7979

You didi wiki-word it correctly, but since you used the [[[WikiWord word]]] markup, it showed the way it was non-wikiworded, and you had a stray space in that one.

How much context does The Wiki Rule need? All I've seen in examples is a word or two potholed to the work's wiki. Like this one in VideoGame.Lost Souls MUD (now removed because it was on main):

• The Wiki Rule: Yup.

edited 3rd Apr '17 5:43:11 PM by Gosicrystal

Off the top of my head, I'd say the name of the wiki so people can find it if the link is dead or if it moved (findable through a google search). Or the [doman].[com] being shown with the link potholed (example: Example.com). They could even give the year that the wiki launched. If all it is is the link and the word "Yup," then that... doesn't help anyone with anything.

Most of the examples on Characters.Bionic Six appear to lack proper context.

In a bit of a debate with another troper concerning sufficient context for a Bishōnen example in Characters.Fire Emblem Gaiden, and need some second opinions since I'm shit at explaining things.

• Bishōnen: In Echoes. His bio outright describes him as such.such, which fits in with his Camp Gay aesthetic.

That example's context is inadequate because it does not explain what Bishōnen is. The rule is that examples must be able to stand on their own. What that means is an example must have enough context that a reader who doesn't know anything about the work and hasn't read the trope description can understand what the trope is and how it is used, without having to go anywhere else (e.g. by clicking a link) to do so.

That's what I thought and tried to explain, though in not so many words.

I pm'd the the user who re-added the example and they suggested that our page on Zero Context Examples should be clearer which I kinda agree. Perhaps something like what Gideoncrawle said should be on the page.

edited 23rd Apr '17 10:36:31 AM by captainpat

These examples from ThemeTuneCameo.LiveActionTV need verification...

• A few Nickelodeon examples:
  • Drake & Josh: In the episode "First Crush", Drake Parker sings the show's theme song ("I Found a Way" by Simple Plan) until a snake appears on his shoulder and gets thrown into the audience.
  • Zoey 101: In "Back to PCA", "Follow Me" by JoJo, the show's theme, is heard during the final scene.

Those examples look alright.

Hi, my name is The Place...and almost every single one of my examples are ZCE. Please...help me...

Joking aside, the wicks are a mixed bag of ZCE, links from One-Word Title examples, and correct use. But on the page itself...I'm not even sure that sending it back to TLP would work, since those issues were in the original YKTTW. And as for why it didn't get the name Location Title...well, time to go somewhere else and partially correct for that.