Religion in your writings

That's horrifying. Hope no one has family with different beliefs that they want to see any time soon when they die.

Why would the Roman gods not exist?

Also, seconding the horrifying thing.

Merlo: I am a greek faggot, not a roman faggot.

But also, the romans pretty much just copied the greek gods, and gave them different names, if that. I'd much prefer to think of them just being the same gods, under different names and a different agenda, then a whole new set.

At most, the entire Roman pantheon consisted of Expies of the Greek pantheon.

Anyways, subjecting someone to an afterlife that they never believed in doesn't make a whole lot of sense. For some people, The Nothing After Death seems far less scary once you realize that you're not going to be around to care that you don't exist.

That fate actually does strike one of my scientist characters. In a country that's very, very spiritually-based and rooted in the worship of a deity- any deity -this scientist's belief that he'll vanish when he dies is pretty scandalous in my religious zealot of a protagonist's eyes. And he does vanish, while the rest of the cast gets to hang around in some kind of an afterlife.

edited 28th Sep '11 8:31:35 PM by CrystalGlacia

Well, glad I don't live in that reality. That poor poor scientist. Geebus. So you could be a total dick, but so long as you believe you are going to a heaven where everything is rainbows and icecream, it would happen? Yeesh.

edited 28th Sep '11 8:32:17 PM by MrAHR

I am a christian. Jesus is everything in my stories. But I try not to be anvillicious, so that everyone can enjoy them. In fact you probably wouldn't even realize that you are reading a story made by a christian. God is definitively there however.

But none of my characters (with one expetion.One character for next tv tropes writting contest is a christian. But you woulnd't notice unless I told you) are christian... so far.

edited 28th Sep '11 9:32:59 PM by FallenLegend

The faykind "afterlife" is not an afterlife in the strictest sense. Some of them believe there may be an afterlife after being devoured. This may or may not be true.

The story is a remnant of a golden age, a point in history when the faykind were considerably more powerful and more dangerous. The fall of that age, and the loss of the Rebirth, was entirely the fault of the faykind of that time. The story has survived in their culture through the millennia as a grave warning against hubris and a reminder to enjoy the life you have; at the time at which my story is set it has passed into the realm of myth and generally regarded with some scepticism, but remains true.

In case it wasn't obvious, they're not really the Fae in any traditional sense.

On existing religions, none have survived into the time in which my story is set. I prefer not to take a stance on the question of their veracity. There is a being in my setting which bears some superficial resemblance to the Judeo-Christian God, but he doesn't profess to be God and is neither omnipotent nor entirely benevolent.

edited 29th Sep '11 3:00:23 AM by BobbyG

I'm going for an All Myths Are True approach in my Fantasy Kitchen Sink - inasmuch as the various deities are definitely real and undeniably so (even the atheists acknowledge that the deities are real - they just choose not to follow/worship/seek assistance from any of them - how tough is that?)

I'm still working out how I'm going to play the conflicts between the religions - like all those who think their deity is the actual creator (if they are all different deities, then they can't all be right) and what the deities are actually prepared to do for their followers (one presumes they can do anything, but may well have their own ideas on how much they are prepared to do for those pesky humans who're always yelping "I want you to do this for me" - atheists may be the only humans the deities actually like.)

I'm also trying to work out what a world where all deities are real would actually look like - how people would act towards one another (assuming they are of different religions and they each know that the other's deities are just as real as their own), how religions would spread to adherents of other beliefs, what the deities would think of people changing deities ("forsake ME, will you?!" or "thank fuck he's no longer my problem!"?) and such.

It's proving to be a bit of a headache.

As the religions include Roman, Celtic, Norse and Saxon paganism, Judaism and early Christianity, it could get kind of interesting.

I don't want to go the "Deities need prayer to exist" route - more like "they are there whether or not you worship them" and if you choose to worship/follow them, you need to abide by their rules.

Haven't done much with fictional religions.

Most of my stuff is fanfic, and the characters have the religious beliefs or lack of same they do in canon/fanon. (One story ends with the main character entering the afterlife, which is implied to be Christian but not specified.)

One longer story of mine features a character who's not only Christian, but fairly fervent about it—the catch is that he may be an artificial being created by the villain, who in that case would have made him Christian just to be cruel.

And another series of stories is about a woman from a future where Christianity still exists—but like all the major religions, has had to adapt to the proven existence of psionic powers.

Following on from some of the above posts, in my works where All Myths Are Real I tend to have people get the afterlife they expect. Other people's expectations of them don't enter into it ("you're doomed if you're an atheist" etc doesn't wash).

If an atheist expects oblivion/dissolution of being, then that's what they get unless something goes awry - like secret doubts or a sudden "fuck this noise, I don't want to cease to exist" on their death bed. I could well imagine that the latter would suddenly result in a "ghost" left wandering around looking for a suitable afterlife...

That leaves people either following a belief because of tradition/culture or choosing their religion carefully based on the rules they are prepared to follow in the here and now and what sort of afterlife they want to experience.

I also tend to put things back on human nature - you could be as miserable as hell living in a country that other people view as a "paradise", so a person who believes they deserve to be punished in the afterlife will view whatever happens and wherever they are to be "punishment".

I put it down to "wherever you go, you take yourself with you." If you didn't like life, you may find you won't like the afterlife, either.

I personally like Pratchett's take on it in Mort - it pretty much sums up how I view things:

something along the lines of bad people who believe they were good getting rewards and good people who believe themselves to be unworthy being punished. Where's the justice in that?

There is no Justice, just us

My world has veered off into Religion Is Magic, with the afterlife being that you get exactly what you want. In the more important cases, the thing managing the afterlife actually goes around and checks.

I started with 5 Churches: Flamist Law, Witch Chaos, Druid Neutral, OTG Evil, Pontiff Good.

But it didn't work, so I added the extra dimension of Light/Grey/Dark. Flamists are Lawful light, Witches are Chaotic Dark, Druids are Neutral grey, OTG are Evil light, Pontiffs are Lawful dark.

The other churches are too small to have political influence.

edited 29th Sep '11 4:33:37 PM by Trotzky

. . . I just realized that I am writing about stuff that can be called religious—I just don't think of it in those terms. I mean, all three settings I'm currently working on have some manner of soul, two have beings that defy current scientific knowledge merely by existing, and one even has a form of Hell (by dimensional shift and Viral Transformation into a "demon.") For that matter, I'm considering whether to imply that the latter setting has a powerful being with benevolent reasons for creating the demons.

Then again, I'm avoiding the whole "omniscience" thing, and I've deliberately made it possible for anything in every setting to be rendered Deader than Dead so as to avoid Death Is Cheap.

wait, Mr. AHR, you said you have greek gods but no roman gods? aint most of them the same gods with just diff names?

That's what I always said I would do if I was a god; judge them on their own religion's scale and send them appropriately to whereever, not enforce my own system. then again its been like 6 years since i last said that i think... guess i forgot about it

0-0-0-

Does anyone think that religion in writings reflects something about the author or a kind of parallel to real life that is meant to illustrate something, or is it just a plot element most of the time? im not sure but always wondered what the metaphorical/symbolic use of religion in stories was

In my case, I'm interested in religion and I firmly believe that what people choose to believe says a lot about them and/or explains their actions. So in part I strive not to neglect the effects that a character's beliefs would have or what their nature would lead them to embrace.

Also, I enjoy playing with interesting characters and having them react to one another on many levels, of which religion is one - I like to have "oddball" non-mainstream Christians (e.g. Christian polygamists) contrasted with more mainstream every-day Christians in turn contrasted with zealous Christian extremists.

I tend to base all these on real people I've encountered to avoid strawmen - sometimes amalgamating a couple or more people with similar outlooks into one character.

As a pagan, I like to portray pagans as they really are to counteract the Hollywood over-sensationalised versions we normally get.

And then I like to play with "what if" scenarios like "what if it were all at least partially true?" and see where that leads and what logical consequences there would be. (how would Christians react if they knew that all the non-Christian deities were as real and valid as their own God and that "thou shalt have no other gods before me" was a law that only they and other Abrahamic religions had to obey?)

I also like to show the similarities between disparate religions and how they arrive at many of the same decisions from their own viewpoints - sure there are differences, but they can agree on these things even if they can't agree on why it's a "good/bad thing". (e.g. even Anton La Vey's Church of Satan agrees that harming children is the worst crime ever).

So you wind up with things like: "sure, those guys think nothing of pre-marital sex and we think it's a sin - but you've got to admit, they frown upon murder every bit as much as we do"

So what it says about me is that I like exploring interesting topics and looking at how/why people think and act as they do.

I've got no desire to paint anyone as "more right" than anyone else - either they are all equally right (and therefore also equally wrong) or they are all equally open to personal interpretation.

@jasonwill 2: That's something that can only be judged on a case-by-case basis for each author. I wouldn't make any generalisations about how writers use religion in their stories.

I figured this would be the right thread to post this in, but correct me if I'm wrong.

Right now I'm working on a story about humanoid ants who actually sort of follow the laws of real insect biology (i.e. no male workers, huge, immobile queens, inborn caste system etc.) But I hit a snag when I came to the subject of ant religion. The ant's faith is monotheistic and borrows certain patterns from Christianity, particularly Catholicism. There's one central god(dess) called Magna Mater, who is incorporeal, omniscient and infinite; as well as angel-like beings who are a little closer to Earth and act as Her messengers. Heroes and saints of previous generations (ancestral queens are a popular choice) are revered and addressed almost like demigods. the ants' spirituality bears some resemblance to European Christianity as well; there are strong similarities in artistic motif and Latin is the lingua franca.

My problem is that I'm worried any resemblance to real-world religion, especially one that's so out in the open, could be offensive to some people. I'm an Atheist, so I don't really know what's considered disrespectful or not, and I'm afraid that I might step on some toes without realizing it. Any questions or comments on how I can avoid too many Unfortunate Implications?

: I like the way you think, Wolf. And I think your stuff sounds interesting from a philosophical viewpoint.

: Sounds like you've got a case of Crystal Dragon Jesus on your hands. I don't think I've ever seen someone get offended just from that trope alone—heck, for some people, it actually might make your ant-people more appealing due to the similarities. So I think you're good.

Jason: Quite. If you had read my other post, you would know that.

I like to take a "sufficiently analyzed" approach to religious concepts, whether it be an afterlife, a deity, or something else. For my own sufficiently analyzed fantasy setting, I plan to have a set of physical laws that are complex enough to be compared to a human's thought process. This sentient collection of physical laws is referred to as a god due to it being immortal and being everywhere. Oh, and it is one of those Odd Job Gods that is mostly in charge of travel to and from its dimension as well as being able to have an area emulate another dimension's laws of physics.

I'm atheist and I'm not very well acquainted with anyone who is really educated in their religion (like... I've read more of the Bible out of random curiosity than my friends who identify as Christian). I have a really hard time wrapping my head around religion and what makes a religion feel sensible... and prancing up to someone saying "I don't think your religion makes sense" is probably a bad research method.

If religion shows up in my fantasy stories, it's most likely an Expy of a real-world religion; characterized by a Flanderization of a quirk of a real world religion (one of my settings has a religion that runs on Patron Saints for Everything to a point they never actually acknowledge a deity, which I guess exhibits their culture's sentiments that humans should try to go Beyond the Impossible);or mentioned so vaguely that it's hard to say anything about the belief structure beyond "a deity of some sort exists." The only character I have with specific and positively portrayed religion is Unitarian Universalist. Christianity shows up the most since I'm the most familiar in it since it's kind of hard to read old literature and look at European art history without at least a little sense of it.

edited 1st Oct '11 12:00:50 AM by Kaxen

I'm someone who believes in a sort of God...ish...thing... kind of personish... entity... but I've always found mythology to be really silly. It always strikes me as a pretty funny thing that people believe in a literal boat carrying around a pair of each animal and I'd better stop myself before I accidentally offend someone. In any case, the religions in my story tend to usually be one-shot jokes like The Latter-Day Church of Jack Sparrow the Seer, Apostates of the Holy Macintosh, or The Paragons of Jesus Christ The Ultimate Warrior. I suppose it reflects my view of how religions have become major through history and seeing the fanatical devotion to the oddest things these days and wondering if there will be a connection in the future.

Religion is glanced at within my work and it's obvious my MC has some issues with it but it's never really gone into detail.

My MC is Anti-theist.

His Mentor is deist*

and I'm pretty sure almost every other character is either Agnostic or Shintoist, maybe a few Apatheists.

Oh and one New Age villain. *

As for me myself I'm an atheist*

edited 1st Oct '11 9:38:10 AM by Vyctorian

I literally only just noticed the error in the title. Fixed.

I don't write stories set on Earth, so all the religions I use are fictional. They're not designed as expies of any existing religions, though I do get the occasional idea from real life that I try to integrate into them.

In my current world, there are elemental spirits that explicitly exist, of various strength. A lot of mythology is built around them, but a lot of the grander myths ascribe powers and events to spirits, when they had nothing to do with it. It's not completely ridiculous since spirits have abilities far more powerful than humans, but current myths tend to claim a single spirit did something that either a lot of spirits or natural forces caused, like the collapse of mountains and the creation of the world.

There are no monotheistic religions designed, but some cultures elevate certain spirits to the level of gods (but that spirit may not have existed in the first place, so, er) and sort of lump extra powers onto them.

The main-focus culture doesn't have gods, but there are local spirits they honour, and great spirits that have the occasional festival but don't currently do anything (sort of deistic, I guess). It's the smaller-scale spirits people really care about, if any, but everyone knows the great spirits, so it connects towns around the nation. And there are, canonically, chosen ones sent against people who displeased the spirits, but the spirits only really care about things that affect them; it's still considered enforcement of morality, but it really isn't. Still, this is all sort of a background to the people, who don't think about it because, to them, it's just fact. They'll honour the local spirits if they're hoping for hospitality from the town, and most towns will have a mythkeeper to remember the spirit-lore and hero-tales, but they don't really reflect on the meanings of things and don't take all of them literally. There aren't a lot of religious differences between individuals in a culture because there aren't a lot of new religions coming in or anything to challenge the factual status of the spirits.

That's possibly because I'm an atheist and don't find religion all that important. I'm aware that they're likely to occur and should shape the culture's worldview, so I include them, but only up until the point where they stop being fun to play with. Of course, some bits really are fun, and the spirits kind of exploded in importance at some point - when I originally designed them, they didn't exist except in myth, and now there are spirits that literally do watch over towns, or work with specific people, or raze towns, or make small floating continents, or protect specific nomadic tribes.

edited 1st Oct '11 12:09:27 PM by greedling