Rules of Shonen Action Main Character

... I don't get it.

And by my calculations... this is going to be a very awkward page-topper.

Man, reading this topic has enlightened me.

So how about we talk about, the main character's affinity for the color red. What does Red(And by extension blue) represent in Japanese culture, and why is it so prevalent.

The Law of Chromatic Superiority, and Red Is Heroic? I'm guessing it has to do with red being a color associated with passion and energy. It's a color of power, of fire, blood and rage.

Consider from the former's trope's Quotes page:

There's also Red Ones Go Faster, I guess.

edited 3rd Jan '14 2:26:30 PM by Crinias

And what of the romanticization of violence?

edited 4th Jan '14 12:41:38 AM by TheHandle

ok...so what about blue?

Blue is the color of water and clear skies. It is a calm yet cold color.

It provides an ideal contrast to red. It's why we have Red Oni, Blue Oni, whose page really says it all. Red is passionate and hot-blooded, Blue is calm and cool. Red is The Leader, Blue is the Lancer. Red is the Id, Blue is the Super Ego... Examples go on and on forever.

Take Asuka and Rei from Evangelion, a perfect example - Asuka is incredibly hot-blooded, passionate and desperate to show off, Rei is expressionless, collected and self-sacrificing; both even have the appropriate hair colors for this, and the opposite eye colors. Rei is often compared to the moon, Asuka to the sun... I really don't need to go on.

Red Oni, Blue Oni is common because of all these things. It is ideal, both visually and thematically. It's a simple idea that can communicate complex thoughts.

That's really all there is to say on the matter.

edited 3rd Jan '14 6:30:54 PM by Crinias

It can be inverted of course, such as with the Char Clone usuallly being the calm and collected superior tactician or fighting, yet prefers red.

Also, it's the reason why So many Super Sentai Leaders are red.

You know what, I personally take offence to that bit here:

That's hardly a Japanese exclusivity

One: science doesn't kill gnomes, because there were no gnomes to begin with; it merely does away with the notion that there might be gnomes there. No gnomes were, in fact, harmed, no ghosts were slain. Two: the rainbow is still there. That its existence is explained by the simple processes of light refraction on a multitude of water droplets, that there is no "fundamental" rainbow, does not mean that there is no beautful phenomenon to be enjoyed at the sensory level. In fact, our experience of the world is enriched. by knowing what goes on in it. If we can't take joy in the merely real, our lives will be sad indeed.

And America didn't curbstomp Japan because SCIENCE, it curbstomped them because of a bigger industrial base, more resources, better logistics, and so on and so forth. I don't think anyone could have called the US war effort to be "cold" or "disillusioned", for that matter.

Why should a bunch of people living on a bunch of islands and speaking a bunch of connected dialects have an "identity"? What in the world should they be "identical" to? As for the traditions, whether they were backwards or outdated, and whether they should be modified or kept or abandoned, is a matter of what they are for, of their final purpose. When you find that a system is unable to perform a task any more because of changing conditions, you figure out a way to change it accordingly. Why make a huge angsty deal out of it?

The whole thing strikes me as terribly irrational and misguided, with a strong undertone of self-victimizing.

How do you know it to be right? Conviction is worse than worthless if what you fervently believe in, is, in fact, false; it is the straight path towards the wall, like running blind. Well, unless the force of your belief reshapes reality, but this would only work on consensus realities such as "this guy is the leader" or "this work of art is awesome", not on, you know, empirical reality. No matter how much you believe you can fly, if you step over that balcony, you will drop. Is that simple acknowledgement of the reality which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away, 'cold', 'uncaring', or 'cynical'?

I think I now get why Gurren Lagann was so compelling, and why it also left me with a very bitter aftertaste that I couldn't explain. Kamina is insane. Challenging a Humoungous Mecha with just a sword. Then attempting to steal one by hand. Then attempting to take down a battleship by himself. It's just that the universe conspires to make him right. The world of Gurren Lagann is utterly unreal, in that sheer willpower can tangibly and dramatically change reality. A lot of shounen action stories rely on this "sheer force of will reifies the impossible". And then when you come back to reality, and find out it doesn't bend to your will, doesn't give you what you want just because you want it very, very hard... well, it sure is disappointing, frustrating on a deep level. Like being weaned all over again. But, you know, accepting that the world works the way it does is not at all the same thing as becoming an amoral, nihilistic husk; it merely gives you a better chance at actually achieving whatever you set out to do.

TLDR: Who Moved My Cheese?.

edited 9th Jan '14 8:27:09 AM by TheHandle

I'd argue against that notion, actually. Just because reality is cold and bitter doesn't mean it's everyone's duty to accept it. Some of the most important moments in human history were the result of someone being told something was impossible and then resigning themselves to doing it anyway. If you jump off a balcony, sheer force of will won't save you from falling, but sheer force of will will invent a parachute, or a wingsuit.

edited 9th Jan '14 9:28:28 AM by KSPAM

Like Kamina.

The point is that nothing's impossible as long as you're willing to put in the work, which sometimes involves stretching the definition of your original goal. Another good example would be that force of will won't give you super strength, but force of will will motivate you to make the world's first personal cybernetic exoskeleton, with a maximum lifting strength of five metric tonnes.

edited 9th Jan '14 9:32:36 AM by KSPAM

Of course it isn't. But what makes Japan's situation unique was its self-imposed isolation until relatively recently. They had fallen way, way behind the rest of the world in academic terms and had a rude awakening when they found out.

I say this from the perspective of popular Japanese thought and policymaking at the time. Prior to the war, the motto was "Japanese Spirit, Western Technology", which they saw as a perfect combination for assured victory and supremacy.

From the perspective of believers in Japanese Spirit, Americans were "disillusioned" in that they were more beholden to "logic" than the Japanese were. Japan's leadership was under the impression that, as long as they tried really, REALLY hard, things would work out okay. To them, the fact that Americans did not try as suicidally hard as they did (sometimes with actual suicide) meant that they were disillusioned and ruled by "cold" logic.

One of the major problems in Japan now is a growing "disillusionment" of the youth, as the way the world is and the way they were raised to view it have turned out to be two different things. Attack on Titan, in particular, was created to symbolize Japan as a culture that essentially got its ass kicked and then just gave up and became withdrawn.

They were all subjects of the Emperor, and according to their spiritual beliefs, descendants of the gods themselves. To them, they were The Chosen People, and America pretty much showed up with guns and ships and said, "Fuck you. You're not special. We know this because we're White." That gave them self-esteem issues real quick.

If you were right, you will win. Unless you lose, which means you were wrong.

Pretty much.

To be fair, I've found that Japanese Spirit does have a practical application. If you truly want something, and pour your heart into it, that is all you can do. Not trying is the only guaranteed way to fail.

But there has to be a practical limit to how much you try, and a constant redefinition of the line between "trying" and "habit".

edited 9th Jan '14 9:38:47 AM by KingZeal

Identities may cause division between people but can also bring them together. Finding and keeping one is necessary to maintain the unity of any group of people. It's what causes us to draw distinctions between things, to some extent. And beyond any long-term goals or objectives, people in general feel the necessity to fit in society with others. Having an identity gives people an incentive to treat each other in certain manners, to protect each other and shelter themselves. Manners, laws, religions, ways of being, all of these can form identities; and they all hold back chaos and disorder at bay.

Traditions and collective beliefs can give people strength of mind and determination, it sets them apart from other people and gives them things to think about.

Take one of the first creation myths in the world, the Enuma Elish: Beyond being a creation myth celebrating the formation of the world out of chaos and into order it proclaimed the superiority of Marduk as the god of the Babylonians, above any other gods. And it's not perfect (that very myth displays just how old and terrible sexism is, for instance), it has flaws, but it was necessary for its time.

And here, you ask why the Japanese were afraid of losing their identity? It is identity which forms their thoughts and culture. Lose that and it would mean the decay of their people, their very future. So they had to change who they were while maintaining what made them themselves.

It doesn't matter if you think it irrational, that's what it was to them. To say that identity doesn't matter is to spit upon one of the most important questions man can face: "Who am I?"

edited 9th Jan '14 9:47:55 AM by Crinias

I'm sorry I had to.

edited 9th Jan '14 9:43:24 AM by KSPAM

I have to say, when I launched this thread, I wasn't expecting to see a discussion of this depth. I think it's a good thing; King Zeal's information is very profound.

I should take a time to release an updated version of the list.

@Crinias: that whole thing was extremely confusing. Why "spit"? What does "who I am" even mean? And why does it matter that "who I am" be something stable? Why do you need a label besides "we are all human" in order to treat others decently, and "we are citizens of government X, whose jusdiction extends over territory Y", in order to treat others according to rules? Most importantly, why in the world would we need to set some groups of humans apart from each other?

@King Zeal: I know you're only explaining the scholars' positions, not your own. As someone who was raised a Muslim, I can understand the Japanese's plight to a certain extent. My own opinion on this topic is that one should unceremoniously dump what's holding them back, but not to ape and copy what the cool kids are doing, but to properly and deeply understand why what works for them does, what doesn't work for us doesn't, and what new tools precisely should be acquired, not just by imitation, but by bold innovation also. Again, TLDR, if the cheese ain't where it used to be, go find the new cheese, and do try to enjoy the treasure hunt while you're at it; in fact, make and perfect a cheese-finding algorythm so that you don't even miss a beat if you ever find it disappeared.

@ KSPAM: "acceptance" is not the same as "nihilism": surrendering on battles you can't possibly win isn't the same as forfeiting the effort. What you describe, people going on to do what was previously thought to be impossible, is us scientists and engineers' bread-and-butter. By understanding the rules of what is possible, we can munchkin our way into doing amazing things. But this requires quite a lot more than "wanting it very hard"; it requires cleverness, imagination, a great humility and willingness to go back on one's opinon, to give up on one route and try another, and, most of all, it requires patience and rigour and elbow grease.

And that doesn't easily lend itself to good narration... except it does, if you resort to a Montage, if you present things in the right light... artists and writers also keep doing things that were previously thought to be impossible . How many hours of human beings drawing and drawing and squeezing their brains out does it take to animate a three-minute action scene? How long did it take them to reach a level of proficiency where that number of hours was nearly enough?

I say, does anyone here read Worm?

edited 9th Jan '14 10:10:14 AM by TheHandle

Gurren Lagaan is actually a pretty bad example to use there, Handle. If my memory of those incidents isn't too fuzzy Kamina didn't get through all those incidents through sheer willpower, Simon, Yoko, and crew had to get in on the action to ensure the best possible outcome. Kamina's will may have triggered the occurrences but everything needs a cause, whether it's a loudmouth with a sword or anything else.

By the end of the show it's not that the universe suspends the laws of reality to make things happen because the protagonists wish it so through sheer willpower. Willpower is a part of the laws of reality. Yes, in real life "Where there's a will there's a way!" would mean something like determination and hope will inspire you to overcome an obstacle, and that's what it probably should be in most Shonen stories instead of allowing heroes to suddenly develop new powers, but in TTGL that actually is a part of the reality.

Uh. ._.

edited 9th Jan '14 10:12:48 AM by Parable

The more insightful proponents of Japanese Spirit would be the first to agree with you. As I wrote on the [[Analysis/Japanese Spirit Analysis Page of the trope]], the original idea was that Yamato-Damashii was supposed to apply to pragmatic methods of changing the game. It's just that Viewers Are Morons and writers are lazy.

Traditional Shinto/Zen Buddhist ideals is that when reality stops you from doing what you truly want, it leaves a taint on your soul. This is one of the reasons the Japanese performed rituals, prayers, misogi, and meditation as a regular course of action. Think of all times your soul was tainted by disappointment, failure, or ignorance, and you can see how easy it would be to accumulate these impurities.

edited 9th Jan '14 10:19:04 AM by KingZeal

Whatever happened to "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger"? Whether I think of folk heroes like Musashi or historical figures like the ones in the Sengoku Jidai, Japanese culture should be chock-full of characters that used setbacks and defeats as springboards for future success, bouncing back when everyone least expected it. On the contrary, having everything go the way you wanted to is sure to corrupt you and spoil you rotten with entitlement and thoughtlessness.

Not if the story ends before those possibilities set in.

Sort of like how Everybody Lives except, eventually, they really don't?

Exactly.

I'm reminded of the scene from Gettysburg where after losing the battle General Lee admits he gambled so much against bad odds because he was so used to winning that he though his army was invincible. Cue Pickett's Charge and 1/3 of his army being wiped out and the rest limping back home.

"Build something fool proof and the universe will build a better fool."

Just saw this edit.

There's two things you need to remember, though: first, the Japanese have HUGE cultural values in subservience and adherence to tradition. More than most cultures. They're used to the idea that once you defer to someone else's expertise, you treat that person with the absolute respect and never show disrespect, even if that person has gone completely off their rocker.

So to them, America (and the West) showing up and forcing them out of seclusion meant that there was a new authority in town. But the scary part was that this new authority didn't give a shit about them and their backwards-ass beliefs and practices (a war damn near started because a White visitor refused to bow to a samurai and got killed for it—in the modern day, it would be like taking a piss on the American flag, the Cross, AND the president's wife at the same time). Hell, the whole point to the Meiji War was the disagreement between those who took that viewpoint and those that didn't. The ones who did won.

The problem they found, though, was that the White people during that time thought it was real cute that these little backwater island people suddenly thought they were people. Y'know, not being White and all. So when Japan said, "Teach us to be like you and still Japanese", the Western world said, "Sure, we can do the former, but why the hell would you want the latter?"

edited 9th Jan '14 12:41:37 PM by KingZeal