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Me's A Crowd has evolved, should we split Self-Duplication power from it?: Mes A Crowd get usage counts

 26 Marq FJA, Mon, 1st Aug '11 12:54:20 PM from Saudi Arabia Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
O' Allah, save Egypt
[up] Right. Let's just hope that Fast Eddie doesn't use the Admin Hammer on this one; I'm already nervous by his last post here, since it was clearly in the opposite direction of how the discussion was going.
Ash-shaʻb yurīd isqāṭ ḥukm al-ʻaskar
There is now a single prop crowner here.
 28 Some Sort Of Troper, Wed, 3rd Aug '11 2:33:50 PM Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, she is imaginary
Checking wick use:

...

while this is underway, I point out that people probably misuse Me's a Crowd for anything to do with clones than the superpower.

....

first batch:

  1. OhCrap.Doctor Who-Master: Oh that's too simple...no no no no no. They're not going to think like me... ...They're going to BECOME me!- Other Misuse, general duplication.
  2. Ace Attorney Abridged  In the first episode Phoenix defends Ema Skye... with Hobo-Phoenix as the Prosecutor and pink sweater University-Phoenix as the witness. Guess who the victim is? Hilarity Ensues. Other misuse-disguises
  3. .   Creepy Twins The scene where Boomer confronts her naked clones in the Season One finale of Battlestar Galactica was this, writ large. Other Misuse-clones
  4. .   Jackie Chan Adventures Me's A Crowd - The episode "Jade Times Jade." Correct
  5. .   Characters/Smallville High Badass Abnormal: In "Collateral, " Chloe's virtual world avatar demonstrates Super Speed,  intangibility,  Mind Over Matter, and Me's A Crowd abilities. Superpower
  6. Red Dwarf Rimmer clones himself and the relationship eventually breaks down, just like on the TV version. This time we're treated to Rimmer's thought process regarding why hanging out with yourself generally won't work in the long run, although whether it's Rimmer's personality flaws or the concept itself that doomed the experiment is left open. Correct
  7. Mortal Kombat: Deception Ermac''  Other Misuse-clones
  8. The Wotch blank has correct example on page
  9. .   Characters/Mariglenica Records Of A Multiversal War Attributed to Dr Mcninja who is a correct example
  10. .   Fallout New Vegas the drugs you take make you see multiple and you have to fight all of them. Misuse
  11. Characters/PS 238 Doctor Positron ???
  12. .   Red Alert 3 Clones of Yuriko are used to fuel to Rising Sun's superweapon, the Psionic Decimator. Other misuse-General cloning
  13. .   Men In Black blank Other misuse- no clue, nothing like the trope turns up in the movie
  14.    Melee A Trois with Megatron vs. Starscream and his clones, general cloning
  15.    Pantheon/Heroes And Villains A reference to the above, apparently general cloning
  16.    Acting For Two Me's A Crowd — Why stop with one clone? misuse general cloning
  17.    Things Mr. Welch Is No Longer Allowed to Do in an RPG 675. Even if the rules allow it, I can't take the Identical Twin advantage 22 times. someone is going to have to tell me, but it looks correct
  18.    Smallville: Other Major Villains Me's A Crowd: Can duplicate himself, and does so frequently. Superpower
  19.    Opposite-Sex Clone  Each of Starscream's clones in Transformers Animated represents some facet of his personality, Other misuse-General cloning
  20.    Characters/Katekyo Hitman Reborn  Her ice powers include making copies of herself to fight for her. Superpower
  21.    Comicbook/Superman This is how Bizarro populated Bizarro World. other misuse- general cloning
  22.    Mystery Guitar Man Many videos involve a number of clones who do backup instrumentation. maybe
  23.    Emperor Battle For Dune The subfraction house Ix allows you access to their projectors if allied.  other misuse- broader
  24.    I Am Legion An interesting use in Star Trek: Vanguard combines this trope with Me's a Crowd. The Shedai Serrataal ruling class often speak as though they're a collective (despite being in reality an ideologically diverse bunch) and can also take on multiple forms at once, controlling several bodies simultaneously.  Superpower
  25.    All Trolls Are Different Poison Elves trolls are like taller, uglier elves with horns and the ability to reproduce by bleeding. Other misuse
  26.    Characters/Storm Hawks Me's A Crowd: "In Finnity" Superpower
  27.    Characters/Homestuck Trolls Two Me's A Crowd: Her time powers can be used to create an army of alternate future selves. Superpower, in a variation
  28. .   Headscratchers/Ben 10 Ultimate Alien In "Duped", Ben uses Echo Echo and the Ultimatrix to duplicate his human form so he can go do three different things at once.  Correct
  29. .   Mobile Menace Metroid Fusion has several sequences where you have to either outrun or hide from SA-X, who always seems to show up at the worst moment. There's actually several of them. maybe superpower, mayber broader misuse
  30. .   Never Mess With Granny Tachimany also has the ability to turn into three old women.  Superpower
  31. .   Characters/Code Lyoko Jérémie tries to give Odd a teleportation ability, but ended up making two clones superpower mishap
  32. .   Hall Of Mirrors Claire in Heroes uses the Hall Of Mirrors at Samuel's carnival to turn the tables on a Me's A Crowd villain. Superhero
  33. .   Ls Empire While originally Gemini Man had the ability to create a hologram of himself, upon contact with the Chaos Heart he gained the ability to create an army of solid clones Superpower
  34. .   Knights And Knaves On Bob and George, when Mega Man gets to Gemini Man, superpower
  35. .   Characters/Mortal Kombat Vs DC Universe On Deathstroke:Me's A Crowd: His ending involves him creating a new clan, in order to face several new assassin groups which may come. Notice the similarities to the Mortal Kombatants. other misuse
  36. .   Tracey Mc Bean "Multiplication", though the Shamus clones are bite-sized correct
  37. Tales of the Visitors Wukong tried to do so when he was about to fight Sleipner, but he escaped before beatdown occurred. He got his chance during the Christmas mission. superpower
  38. .   Only One Me Allowed Right Now In one episode of Sgt. Frog, Keroro accidentally clones himself a thousandfold using the Kero Ball.  other misuse
  39. .   Characters/Fate Nuovo Guerra One of his Noble Phantasms Oh I don't know, superpower I guess, can't people write examples so that others can understand them?
  40.    Adventures Of The Galaxy Rangers The "baby Buzzwangs" from "Tune-Up". ?? Superpower?

So that's only about 12 to 14 uses referring to the superpower (~30%), about 6 or 7 (15%)for the actual trope and the rest is misuse for just the broader idea of duplication.

Oh and one case of a guy changing clothes a lot or something.

edited 3rd Aug '11 3:12:09 PM by SomeSortOfTroper

Don't just tell us the facts; tell us the memes, tell us the archetypes, tell us the catchy ideas and symbolic roles that get planted in pe
Considering the entire point of this thread is changing the trope to match the misuse, I think changing this to a redirect for a new "general duplication" trope would work. Maybe with actual superpowers as a subtrope.

edited 3rd Aug '11 3:06:38 PM by Discar

 30 Some Sort Of Troper, Wed, 3rd Aug '11 3:24:16 PM Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, she is imaginary
At this point, of course Duplication Man or whatever one wants to call the superpower can be a trope. I just found a whole bunch of examples after all. But it ain't going to be called Me's a Crowd.

The broad general idea of duplication? Well first let's be clear, that is not the same as cloning. We have Our Clones Are Identical as an index, work with that to make a Clone trope.

Even the broad idea would be bad for this name. Why? Because it's not that everybody is using it for this, it's that just over half of people are. It's like built in misuse.

In fact, why even bother? It's not like the name is suggesting a different trope entirely. That's what we use trope transplants for. This is just good old fashioned"name isn't specific enough so people use it for broader idea".

We can either:

a) come up with a new name we think is great, go through and fix all the wicks.

b) use this name, go through, fix all the wicks.

It's just a choice of names. The single prop is all wrong. The questions are :

  • Do we rename the page at Me's a Crowd? (At this point, the answer is a big yes).
    • If so, what name?
  • What do we call the Duplication Man sort of superpower? (Alt titles)
  • What do we call the trope about any old duplication Includes cloning, doppleganger, I guess some work needs to be done. (There's a YKTTW for this right? Well it sounds like that can just do its job.)

I say we ditch this single prop page action. A) why a single prop when we have a Page Action type. B) Why have only one name in the running against the idea of choosing something else?

edited 3rd Aug '11 3:26:05 PM by SomeSortOfTroper

Don't just tell us the facts; tell us the memes, tell us the archetypes, tell us the catchy ideas and symbolic roles that get planted in pe
I was going to do multi-prop, but the only options I could think of were just two opposites.

If you can come up with a better one, I'm not stopping you.

edited 3rd Aug '11 4:01:55 PM by Discar

 32 Some Sort Of Troper, Thu, 4th Aug '11 5:04:18 AM Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, she is imaginary
Well maybe we just make Cloning. I suppose people say "cloned in a freak transporter accident" all the time. Biological, non-biological...yeah, I suppose it is all just cloning.

So why not call it Cloning?
Don't just tell us the facts; tell us the memes, tell us the archetypes, tell us the catchy ideas and symbolic roles that get planted in pe
 33 Some Sort Of Troper, Sat, 6th Aug '11 4:52:50 AM Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, she is imaginary
The crowner is not giving a big clear consensus and I'm not even sure if it should be valid and the thread is slipping down while we're not even talking about what this thread's main issue is:

What do we name the trope on the page?

I'm going to request a lock and removal of the single prop crowner we have. It's not a valid single prop item. I'm making an Alternative Titles for the trope's rename and asking that this be uploaded.
Don't just tell us the facts; tell us the memes, tell us the archetypes, tell us the catchy ideas and symbolic roles that get planted in pe
 34 Madrugada, Sat, 6th Aug '11 5:17:27 AM Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
Why is the crowner not valid?
'He strutted across the bedroom, his hard manhood pointing the way' sounds like he owns a badly named seeing-eye dog. 'Sit, Hard Manhood!
 35 Some Sort Of Troper, Sat, 6th Aug '11 11:01:53 AM Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, she is imaginary
Because it's one page option out of a load of other page option. How am we meant to gauge support of alternatives or see what others would prefer? How am we even meant to be able to frame it as one option amongst many? I can't see any reason for it to be a single prop.

Plus it's been three days, it hasn't given a consensus, it's not even about the trope of the thread and it's holding up other actions.
Don't just tell us the facts; tell us the memes, tell us the archetypes, tell us the catchy ideas and symbolic roles that get planted in pe
 36 Marq FJA, Sat, 6th Aug '11 11:15:41 AM from Saudi Arabia Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
O' Allah, save Egypt
On a related note, I'd like to draw your attention to the apparent lack of a general "Body/Object Duplication" supertrope that covers both duplicator machines and the superpower of duplication - be it self-duplication, duplication of other objects/people, or both - as well as plots involving their usage.

edited 6th Aug '11 11:15:59 AM by MarqFJA

Ash-shaʻb yurīd isqāṭ ḥukm al-ʻaskar
 37 Marq FJA, Fri, 12th Aug '11 7:23:10 PM from Saudi Arabia Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
O' Allah, save Egypt
Bump. Oi, did the discussion die off when I wasn't looking?
Ash-shaʻb yurīd isqāṭ ḥukm al-ʻaskar
 38 Marq FJA, Sat, 15th Oct '11 3:48:22 PM from Saudi Arabia Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
O' Allah, save Egypt
Bump.
Ash-shaʻb yurīd isqāṭ ḥukm al-ʻaskar
Seeking for Light
If I understand the discussion up to this point correctly, there's approximately three (or four) tropes under discussion here:

  1. A plot where a duplicated character tries to order its duplicates to do chores.
  2. A plot where a character creates many duplicates of themselves.
  3. A supertrope about duplication in general: any plot that involves duplication (of a living character) by any means (clone, superpower, Applied Phlebotinum, doppelgangers, etc.), voluntarily or involuntarily, intentionally or unintentionally.
  4. A character with the superpower of duplication.

There is consensus in the thread that (1.) is the meaning of the current trope. (2.) is the definition derived from the laconic of the current trope. Marq has a YKTTW for (3.), although I couldn't find it. (4.) would need a YKTTW.

So, as I see it, we need to decide:
  • Is (1.) Too Rare to Trope?
    • If not, what should it be named? (Consensus in the thread is that Me's a Crowd is a bad name for it.)
  • Do (1.) and (2.) need to be separate, or can they be combined (with (1.) being noted as a common variant of (2.))?
    • If they should be separate, should we give the name Me's a Crowd to (2.)? If they should be combined, do we keep Me's a Crowd as a name?
    • If (1.) and (2.) are separate, do we need (2.), or is it sufficiently covered by (3.)?

There is also general consensus that there needs to be example/wick cleaning, but that should probably wait until we have the trope definitions sorted out.

edited 15th Oct '11 4:46:16 PM by Nocturna

I think 1 and 2 are the same thing. Not that 1 is too rare to trope, but almost invariably, when the opportunity presents itself (when 2 happens), the original attempts 1.
Still new. Still learning. Asking questions and making mistakes.
Well, depends on how specific you're being when you say "chores." Literally chores is probably Too Rare to Trope, but "Original tries to get duplicates to do stuff he doesn't want to" sounds good to me.

I think the supertrope should be any and all duplication, then under that is the chores trope and duplication as a superpower trope. People are using this as the third one, so that's probably where the name should go.
Seeking for Light
[up][up] Then what about cases like Billy Numerous in Teen Titans? He makes hundreds of clones of himself, but they all work together.

"sits back and watches" and "leaves to do something fun" are things that tell us about how the original views the clones (less than human), and should be crossed referenced to a trope like What Measure Is a Non-Human?.

"works with the duplicates to accomplish something" is usually how this plays as a power (repeated use), not a plot (happens once). Billy is a number 4 example, not 1 or 2.

edited 15th Oct '11 9:53:20 PM by crazysamaritan

Still new. Still learning. Asking questions and making mistakes.
 44 Marq FJA, Sun, 16th Oct '11 1:13:28 AM from Saudi Arabia Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
O' Allah, save Egypt
Marq has a YKTTW for (3.), although I couldn't find it. (4.) would need a YKTTW.
The YKTTW was actually for (4.), and it was launched by Some Sort Of Troper as Self-Duplication while I wasn't looking.
Ash-shaʻb yurīd isqāṭ ḥukm al-ʻaskar
Wow necrobumb. I think its safe to call this crowner.
 
 46 Meta Four, Sun, 25th Dec '11 8:30:40 PM from riding the wave
 47 Marq FJA, Sun, 25th Dec '11 10:32:39 PM from Saudi Arabia Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
O' Allah, save Egypt
Okay, since we've reached a general agreement on the rewrite, who wants to try their hand at this?
Ash-shaʻb yurīd isqāṭ ḥukm al-ʻaskar
As I understood, from October, the current Crowner is irrelevantto the discussion.
Still new. Still learning. Asking questions and making mistakes.
Bump
 
B-Bump. (A new bump for this discussion. So did anyone rewrote it yet?)

Total posts: 70
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