Swap with redirect (sure, why not?): Sure Why Not

Read this thread title incorrectly and you might get some insight on the reasoning why. :)

Facts first: Ptitle kzrxgx4f has a total of 650 wikilinks and over 3,800 inbounds. Predictably, 90 percent of wikilinks are from its alphabetic redirect, Sure, Why Not?. Which are some fairly impressive numbers.

However, the main risk here is that it sounds like a Stock Phrase line of dialogue (a since discredited naming convention) that could be easily linked to any words matching the title, whether the trope actually applies or not.

Because remember, it's a creator/fandom based trope.

Actual misuse may be another story, but if nothing else we do need to review and cleanup. For example, out of the classic ptitles linking to its alphabetic redirect:

• Ptitleh1qfbg3l - Misuse. General author suggestions are not this trope.
• Ptitlembzc7bxi - Ambiguously misuse.

Well, two out of 27 ain't bad, but those calculations are a bit hampered by me not actually finding the wikiword in articles the wiki says it was.

So let me sample a few from non-work Main pages (and not detailing correct usages):

Misuse (treated like a generic Stock Phrase)

• Obfuscating Insanity
• One Riot, One Ranger (RL section)
• Other Stock Phrases
• The Neidermeyer
• Unusual Euphemism
• Viewer Gender Confusion
• Walking Techfix
• World of Ham
• You Mean "Xmas"
• You Have 48 Hours

Ambiguous/unclear

• Survival Of The Fittest
• The Renfield
• What the Hell Is That Accent?
• Who Is This Guy Again
• Word of God

I agree it should be switched with Ascended Fanon. I don't personally recall any misuse, but it sounds exactly like Sure, Let's Go with That, which is too similar for comfort (basically creator vs character dialogue). There's nothing that makes Sure, Why Not? seem distinct other than memory.

Bump.

I support the name change.

I don't recall seeing much misuse - I see it used a LOT, but pretty much always correctly. And Ascended Fanon sounds narrower to me, though possibly not in a way that would be useful (actual Fanon vs. offhand suggestion by a single fan, which is why A Snowclone Is Not A Toy).

Very much agree with swapping with Ascended Fanon. This one has always bugged me.

I'm not entirely clear on why you prefer the redirect that only has 45 wicks to the one that has more than 500.

Is there misuse of it? If not, and the only reason to swap is to get rid of the ptitle, why not simply use the unpunctuated version and use the custom titler to insert the punctuation? That's what it's for.

Sure, Why Not? sounds like a Stock Phrase that can be used in casual conversation. As such, it's a poster child for what Eddie's trying to get us away from.

And worse yet, it sounds exactly like Sure, Let's Go with That, which is a Stock Phrase.

Is it being misused?

I've never seen this one misused and I see it around the wiki A LOT.

Also, your crowner doesn't say what redirect it wants to swap with. Do you just want to move the page from the ptitle to Sure, Why Not? Or do you want to do something else?

edited 23rd Jun '11 2:53:36 PM by shimaspawn

The OP details observed misuse. However, even if we don't rename, swapping the ptitle with the plaintext redirect is just common sense.

edited 23rd Jun '11 3:00:02 PM by Fighteer

Yes, but that doesn't require a crowner. Eddie says just do it.

Swapped the main page to the plaintext instead of the Ptitle and changed title link.

Guess I need to request a Trivia Banner, too.

edited 23rd Jun '11 3:13:17 PM by SalFishFin

The crowner proposal originally had a hottipped note that if the swap was approved it would "probably be to Ascended Fanon." I took that out because it struck me as an attempt to game the system by making a hidden proposal that is not what we're usually talking about when we're talking about "swapping a ptitle with its redirect". If you want to make an either /or proposition like "either swap it with this redirect or don't swap it at all", make a single prop and don't hide half of it in a hottip.

Bumping for more votes.

FYI, the article has collected about +30 wikilinks and +200 inbounds in the past month, pretty good numbers on their own, but in that same month we've also had the recent ruling against dialogue/phrase based titles, of which this is definitely one.

Also, I feel necessary to say that most "swap with redirect" proposals there is only one redirect under consideration. That's what makes it different from a standard rename proposal, although if we're also going to discuss titles other than the existing redirects it's easy to tweak the crowner to reflect that.

I've also updated the crowner to reflect the fact that the article now resides at its non-ptitled version.

And if I may do another misuse scan... here's the complete A range:

Misuse as a Stock Phrase

• Adam Westing
• Headscratchers.Avatar The Last Airbender

Other Square Peg Round Trope or ambiguous usage

• FanFic.A Different Lesson
• Adolf Hitler
• All Hail the Great God Mickey!
• All He Ever Wanted
• Animal Gender-Bender (There's a difference between fanon being officially made canon, versus the writer responding "sure, you can believe that if you want" while the situation remains otherwise ambiguous)
• Apeshit (poor context given)

Total: 8 of 35 (about 20%)

And this is the complete "The" range:

Misuse as a Stock Phrase

• The Burger King
• Characters.The Death Gate Cycle
• WMG.The Dresden Files (is Sure, Let's Go with That)
• WMG.The Great Mouse Detective
• WMG.The Lord Of The Rings
• The Neidermeyer
• WMG.The Princess And The Frog
• The Runaway Guys (is Sure, Let's Go with That)
• The Simpsons M-Z (Sure, Let's Go with That)
• WMG.The World God Only Knows

Other cause for concern

• The Boondocks (is a Shout-Out)
• The Killing Joke
• Characters.The King Of Fighters The Tales Of Ash (is I Knew It!)
• TroperTales.The Loonie (a player's RP character was never Fanon relative to its RP, no matter how loony)
• The Sky Tides
• The Walrus Was Paul

Total: 16 of 34 (45%)

edited 28th Jul '11 10:58:51 AM by Stratadrake

Bump for more votes. Crowner is currently deadlocked at 13 yeas and 13 nays.

edited 28th Aug '11 1:03:27 PM by Discar

Bump again. 3 positive, ratio is 1:21 - 1.

Since it's been another month, let's crunch the numbers.

• Wikilinks = 716 (+32 since July)
• Inbounds = 360 (+72 since July)

35 votes total, +7, 1:50-1.

I guess that's no consensus to rename? It is gaining votes, but only at a trickle.

Bumping for resolution.

Ascended Fanon seems more fitting, as it's within the naming pattern of Ascended Meme and Ascended Fridge Horror.

Look, why bring up the crowner, before you've done a representative sampling, in fact, why not just do a representative sampling? It's ok, I believe you if you say you might have seen misuse some time, but I need clear statistics before I can make a decision. The alphabetical search through isn't bad, it gets used in statistics but I'm unsure how it might changes things and usually all the results go up there otherwise it's just badthingbadthingbadthing.

...wait, what? Hmm... well, if you're complaining about the way I reported my old samples, okay I can agree with that (two months ago is practically antedeluvian when measured in Web time). Should I pick another range and give a full report?

There has been a +7 increase in votes (with an increase in ratio) since Discar's post last week.

edited 22nd Sep '11 7:31:30 PM by Stratadrake

Oh I wouldn't bother much, just a lesson for the future I suppose.

Now I've got to go and tell some kids to get off of my lawn.