Genki boy vs: Keet

Well once we get the definition down pat, I say we should rename it to ditch the Gratuitous Japanese.

Creator of the planet Vexus and DSBT Insani T.

For the record, it's not Gratuitous Japanese. I frankly think it's an awful name anyway, but the actual origin is this:

Somebody might want to do a write up on this for the Canonical List of Subtle Trope Distinctions, so we have something solid to point people to. Also, if we've decided that Genki Girl can actually apply to both genders, we should rename it accordingly. Also, Keet is a pretty unindicative name. It makes some sense once you've read the description, but we could do better. Anyway, here's now I understand the distinction:

• Genki whatever: Character who constantly hyperactive and extremely energetic.
• Keet: A cute, generally young, hyperactive male character who has effeminate characteristics, allowing him to serve as an Audience Surrogate for the female audience.

Is that relatively accurate, or did I miss something?

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That's relatively accurate.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

I agree with Teeth. When I hear "Genki Boy" I think of, well, Genki from Monster Rancher: Certainly hyper, but with other elements.

When I hear Keet, I think of Shinji From Gravitation. Loud, brash, possibly part hamster.

I think these are two very different things, and really need splitting.

edited 4th Nov '11 2:42:43 PM by Hadashi

Tropes I have created.

Hadashi, I have to say that "Loud, brash, possibly part hamster." may be the perfect characterization of a Keet. I don't know the precise character but I think I know exactly whet he's like from that.

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.

On a side note, the current laconic is "Cutesy, hyperactive guy" - is that good or should it be drilled down some more?

Yeah, unwritten rule number one: follow all the unwritten procedures. - Camacan

This is such a virulent problem, these two getting mixed up. It just won't go away. There are so many pages referencing Keet that expressly say that it is the Spear Counterpart to Genki Girl, we need to fix those. I also think we need to make Genki Girl completely gender neutral, so there is less confusion on it's applicability based on gender. Also de-emphasis the loudness/cuteness in Keet and emphasis Audience Surrogate for females in BL and Shojo works with all male casts.

edited 4th Nov '11 10:38:51 PM by NoirGrimoir

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I honestly cannot comprehend this trope. Is it supposed to be negative, whereas Genki would be the positive/neutral? Also, how can you tell that they're supposed to be an Audience Surrogate for females, if that's part of it?

Some definitions of Keet tossed around in this thread (here just to keep them straight in my head):

• "The small, perky, cute, colorful, hyperactive, effeminate kid, the Boys Love and Shojo stereotype the current description describes."
• "Keet: A cute, generally young, hyperactive male character who has effeminate characteristics, allowing him to serve as an Audience Surrogate for the female audience."
• "Loud, brash, possibly part hamster."

As opposed to Genki:

• "And the usually older highly energetic, Annoying but enthusiastic, too much sugar in his coffee, guy who needs to get laid. More likely to be a Idiot Hero"
• "Genki whatever: Character who constantly hyperactive and extremely energetic.

So basically, Keet is a sub-trope of what would be just a regular Genki [boy]? Both are full of energy (being loud is part of this), but what Keet means is where the confusion lies. Annoyance is a shared characteristic, because hyper characters are generally annoying to someone in-universe, and there will obviously be fans who don't like them just for being energetic. So this leaves a bunch of stuff I don't even know how to determine.

• "Effeminate" characteristics, which I guess is supposed to mean being prone to tears. Or just being emotional in general, as opposed to stoic? Does willingly cross-dressing count here?
• Being the "uke," which really should only apply for actual BL series, as fanon will almost always make the prettier/shorter/emotional character this as a matter of principle.
• A male character for females to identify with. What exactly does that mean though? Can a series with a female main character have a Keet? And when there are just male characters, what is it about the character that makes him an Audience Surrogate? Is it because he needs things explained to him by the older characters? But then all audience members, male or female, identify with him. Is it just because he has the aforementioned attributes, and is simply the result, not a contributing factor?

Does a Keet have to have all of these, or does just one or a few make the cut?

Sorry that these will all be anime examples, but take for instance these characters listed on the page: Shuichi (Gravitation), Son Goku (Saiyuki), and Momiji (Fruits Basket). I haven't actually seen/read Gravitation, so I'm just going with the fact that he's the page image currently and seems to be a definite example of whatever Keet is.

• Shuichi is Keet. Engergetic, loud, Yuki finds him annoying. He's from a BL series, so as the pink-haired, loud, flamboyant (?) character, he's the "uke" and takes the [sigh] "female" role for girls to identify with.
• Son Goku is Genki. Energetic, loud, Sanzo finds him annoying. He's the youngest of his group, so the others tend to treat him as a younger brother. He's also the most ruled by emotion, not one to hide them. Nothing about him is really feminine, but he would probably be the one for fans to identify with most readily.
• Momiji is apparently Keet, but I'd say Genki. Energetic, loud, Kyo finds him annoying. Definitely child-like and cheerful. Prone to wearing the female school uniform and cute accessories. Not really a central character though.

Am I getting the right idea here? I forgot to get into height earlier, not sure if it might be an important part of this (but parakeets are small, so I guess?). In which case, does this have a sort of "motherly instinct" type of thing (like Real Life I'm Taking Her Home with Me!) going for it, as it's a childish character that females are instinctively aware of? Actually, that last bit honestly sounds irrelevant when put into words. Someone just tell me what parts of this post are relevant, if any.

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My understanding is that the Keet is a BL, or at least Shōjo only character. He is usually the main character, the Uke, and the female audience surrogate. You know when you read BL, or Shojo where everyone is a guy for some reason, and the main character might as well be a girl? That's the Keet. Not all BL has a Keet, some of the more realistic one's avert this trope. Since it's a BL only character, you pretty won't find a female main character in any story with a Keet.

Also, I'm pretty sure from my admittedly limited experience with Saiyuki that Son Goku isn't a Keet.

edited 8th Nov '11 10:39:53 PM by NoirGrimoir

SPATULA, Supporters of Page Altering To Urgently Lead to Amelioration (supports not going through TRS for tweaks and minor improvements.)

Yep, that's the trope.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

I think the problem is that the description over-emphasizes the hyper-activeness and such, that's really not a very necessary part of the trope.

SPATULA, Supporters of Page Altering To Urgently Lead to Amelioration (supports not going through TRS for tweaks and minor improvements.)

Question: The Cat Girl page contains to following line, which I preserved from an earlier version of the main page description. I'm wondering it this is a correct usage of the term.

"However, Catboys can also be found, particularly in media targeted at a female audience. They tend to be either Keets or bad boys, and are actually more likely to wear collars than their female counterparts - especially in Fan Art."

Yes, that is the correct usage of the term. Most catboys in media do seem to be effeminate, cheerful, playful, uke types. Well, the ones that aren't bad boy types.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

I'd say that's pretty accurate, actually.

edited 10th Nov '11 6:16:33 PM by NoirGrimoir

SPATULA, Supporters of Page Altering To Urgently Lead to Amelioration (supports not going through TRS for tweaks and minor improvements.)

Why don't we take these two articles, and PUSH them into one?!

We could call it...Hyperactive Human or something, lol.

Creator of the planet Vexus and DSBT Insani T.

...I am really trying not to explode on you, vexusdylan. These tropes are not the same by any stretch of them imagination. The Keet description just over-emphasizes a hyperactive personality, when that actually isn't a requirement for the trope. Eh, I should just rewrite the description. I think that would clear things up immensely for people.

Edit: Eh, just reread the description. Someone changed it to make it the spear of Genki Guy, except the spear actually is nothing like the description whatsoever. Masaomi is a Genki Guy. Shuichi is a Keet.

edited 15th Nov '11 1:50:44 AM by NoirGrimoir

SPATULA, Supporters of Page Altering To Urgently Lead to Amelioration (supports not going through TRS for tweaks and minor improvements.)

Yeah, I think some well meaning person who didn't understand the trope rewrote it. Go put it back the current definition is a redefinition without discussion. I think they were trying to make it simpler but missed the definition entirely.

edited 15th Nov '11 7:55:49 AM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

Wow, Fast Eddie was the one who did it. This explains much. Anyways, personally I feel we need to:

• 1. Redefine/re-describe Genki Girl to be gender-neutral.
• 2. Possibly even rename just to further make it so no one mixes these up anymore.
• 3. Rewrite Keet description
• 4. Move Genki Guy and Genki Boy redirects to Genki Girl
• 5. Make Female Audience Surrogate and Uke Archetype redirects for Keet.

Proposed Description:

The Keet is a male character who acts as a female Audience Surrogate in Shojo, Boys' Love and other female-demographic works which have either a predominantly male cast or are male character-centered.

Other than being male, these characters act nearly identical to female shojo heroines, and tend to pick up the types of tropes more commonly associated with females and romances, such as the Love Dodecahedron and One Head Taller. In personality they are generally The Pollyanna, The Ingenue, Genki Girl or a Tsundere, all tropes more commonly associated with females than males, and their body-types are very slender and delicate, not overly masculine. Their rather female actions, thoughts and tropes generally comes from a combination of trying to appeal to the target demographic and the fact that they are usually the Author Avatar for a female writer or mangaka.

Not all Keets are gay characters, but due to the way they tend to act in very feminine ways around other characters, even when the work they come from isn't Boys' Love there is usually a ridiculous amount of unavoidable Ho Yay, purposeful or otherwise. Perhaps oddly, these characters are never flamboyant Camp Gay, even in explicitly BL works. In Yaoi and BL works they are almost invariably the Uke, or "bottom", but not all Ukes will be Keets, especially in more mature and fleshed out works.

edited 15th Nov '11 12:15:53 PM by NoirGrimoir

SPATULA, Supporters of Page Altering To Urgently Lead to Amelioration (supports not going through TRS for tweaks and minor improvements.)

That is a great definition.

Completely agree with your proposed course of action.

edited 15th Nov '11 5:38:58 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

Since we're discussing the possibility of renaming it, how wide-spread is the pre-existing Keet term? It's a pretty specific demographic, so I wouldn't expect it to be exactly common, but I'm still curious.

Oh, and agree completely with the new definition and moving the redirects to Genki Girl.

I've heard it in the fandoms of shows that have this sort of character, but not much outside them. I wouldn't object to a rename.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

I have always seen Keet used to describe the hyperactive, gabby, inquisitive, cute and not too annoying little brother types that people use the colloquial "You sound like a parakeet" (as opposed to Cute Shotaro Boy which is used (or should I say one of the three types of misuse) for the calm ones)... Aka what the description originally covered.... Nothing about making this like that.

That really should stick to Keet IMO split off this other one.

Edit: I say little brother because these are rarely an only child they always seem to have an older sibling (even if that person is never seen.)

edited 15th Nov '11 6:08:57 PM by Raso

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Keet does seem like it describes more of a hyperactive Cute Shotaro Boy, not this trope. I'd honestly never heard the term at all before this wiki. And though I recognize the female-audience-surrogate trope, hyper-active gabby little brother type characters, I don't really recognize. Especially in any connection to female-audience-surrogates. I'd be okay with splitting.

edited 15th Nov '11 9:14:11 PM by NoirGrimoir

SPATULA, Supporters of Page Altering To Urgently Lead to Amelioration (supports not going through TRS for tweaks and minor improvements.)

Splitting would also work.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick