These are what we call the 'YMMV items.' Things that some people find in this work. We call them 'your mileage might vary' because not everyone sees these things in the same way. This starts discussions in the trope lists, a thing we don't want. Please use the discussion page if you'd like to discuss any of these items.
YMMV: PAYDAY: The Heist
Abridged Arena Array: First World Bank is the most common level played online due it being the easiest level and having a secret vault that has so much gold inside that players can easily level up several dozen times in one session. Diamond Heist used to be the only level anyone ever plays just to level grind (due to the valuable red diamond on Overkill difficulty) until the First World Bank had the secret vault. You'd be lucky to find game lobbies in First World Bank that aren't for the cache of gold.
Happens again in PAYDAY 2 for Ukrainian Job and Nightclub since both levels are extremely short when done right, thus players can quickly farm cards at the end of a game to get weapon and mask mods quickly. Four Stores is also another popular choice for card farming if someone has a saw since they can hack open ATM machines to quickly get the money and go past the required $15,000 for the objectives.
A patch was created to counter people farming the Ukrainian Job by forcing players to do an escape sequence if they ended the job loud. Nightclub was also changed by adding more rooms to the level, which meant the safe with the cash could be anywhere. Unfortunately, the change caused people to rush the Rats heist for experience points while farming Firestarter for money. note Rats gives a lot of EXP points whether you do the heist properly or not, so most players opt to blow up the lab on day 1 and ignore the money on the bus on day 3 to make the heist go faster.
Base Breaker: The secret vault in First World Bank. The requirements needed to get to it when it was released shook up the fan base, but after the developers made the vault open to anyone regardless of their rep level or masks, game lobbies that are set for First World Bank skyrocketed and veteran players are angry that they can't play a round of First World Bank that isn't for the secret vault and are also upset that new players are now Level Grinding with so little effort that they reach high rep levels without the skills to back it up, which can be a disaster in games that are on Overkill 145+.
Crime.net, the system used to find heists in PAYDAY 2 broke the community in half; people against the idea hate the fact that they can't simply choose what heist and difficulty they want to play on while others say the system helps cut down people farming the same levels over and over again. Random drops at the end of a payday was also met with disdain from people that believe they should be able to earn/buy any mod they want without having to rely on luck while others say the system is fine and prevents min maxing.
Breather Level: Panic Room, at least compared to the previous Heat Street. Careful planning, hunkering down, and Sniper awareness helps make this level somewhat easy. Plus, civilians are few in number, but sufficient, are in safe cover and out of the way, and none of them are female.
Diamond Heist and No Mercy can also become this when the stealth portions go off without a hitch.
Broken Base: PAYDAY 2 broke many parts of the fan base with two things: New voice acting for the robbers were either met with disdain since fans preferred the old voices or was seen as a refreshing change. In-game currency costs to buy skills, weapons, mods, and masks also divided the fan base to the point where no one can agree whether or not the current pricing model is good.
C4/Shaped Charges are also dividing people; no one can decide if the item makes heists too easy and fast (some doors and safes can be blown up, bypassing the need to lockpick or drill) or if the bombs are fine the way they are.
Revamped difficulty from patch 11 broke the remains of the fan base into even smaller fragments. People are either against the new changes, claiming that it makes the game artificially difficult, or they are for the changes and claim that anyone who complains sucks at the game.
The difficulty in general. There has been patches that have buffed damage and behavior for enemies (or glitches that made enemies harder), to which the fan base either welcomes the harder challenge or complain that the game is now too hard. Cue flame wars between both camps if they meet.
The Gage Weapon Pack #1 DLC caused a massive shitstorm amongst everyone. There were massive complaints over the fact that the DLC contain no new heists and how Overkill was robbing everyone by charging $5 for grenades (the DLC also includes more guns, masks, and mask materials). Others say the price is just right.
Complacent Gaming Syndrome: Most players will use the Bronco .44 (revolver) as their sidearm since it's extremely powerful and gives the player a lot of firepower to use should they go down. The Rienbeck 880 (shotgun) is usually everyone's main gun since it's absurdly powerful and can hit targets from a fair distance away. Another main gun people use is the Brenner 21 (machine gun) since it has good stopping power and a massive ammo size, allowing for More Dakka before reloading. For secondary weapons, nearly everyone uses the Mac-11, a submachine gun, since it has good stopping power and works at nearly any distance, plus it's silenced, making it good for levels requiring stealth. If you take the Wolf Pack DLC into account, then you will see people use the AK (assault rifle) for range and power and the GL 40, which is a Grenade Launcher.
Both games have elements of stealth and some heists can be done fully in stealth mode without alerting anyone. Expect people who are trying to stealth to say "suicide" when the stealth fails since there's no other way to restart the level.
Creator's Pet: The Wolf character seems to be a big favorite among the developers. Compared to the background of the other characters (they're in the heists for the thrill and money) Wolf's background shows he snapped after his business went under and lost everything, causing him and his family to become homeless. The DLC heists also has Wolf as the only character with new lines while the other characters use lines from heists that were planned to be used, but became scrapped. Wolf is also voiced by one of the game developers, modeled after said developer, and has the character hailing from Sweden, just like the developer. When PAYDAY 2 was previewed to the public, Wolf was one of two characters used in the demo.
The sequel manages to up the first game. Unlike the first game, the music isn't fixed to a given level, and when the game is moving towards assault phase, the music starts ramping up accordingly instead of Bain telling you how much time you have left.
Tasers: Bulky armored SWAT units with bright yellow stripes on its shoulder pads. Can paralyze you with its taser which also shakes the screen and forces you to fire your weapon, making you waste ammo. The Taser doesn't stop tasing you until you go down or one of your partners kills him (or you get lucky with your uncontrolled fire).
Bulldozers: Heavily armored SWAT unit that has a powerful shotgun which can down you in two hits in close range. Only its face is the weak spot and despite its big size, it can run pretty fast when it needs to. They may also appear in pairs, threes, or even fours on higher difficulty levels.
Shields: An upper level SWAT unit with a shield that can withstand everything short of an explosion or a high level Enforcer's melee attack (assuming he took the skill). What's particularly annoying is that if they are fixated on you, they will always point their shield towards you, necessitating another player to flank it. If you're playing with only AI, you're in for a pretty bad situation. It doesn't help that the police can shoot through it while you can't shoot back.
The Murkywater Mercenaries, while not working with the police, are absolute nightmares in the Slaughterhouse level. They have the same armor as a Heavy SWAT (minus the head, which is exposed), but unlike the SWAT, Murkywaters have extremely high accuracy and reaction times. It is not unheard of for teams to have their health reduced to the red by the time they even reach the slaughterhouse because of the mercenaries.
PAYDAY 2 introduces the tan FBI units, which operate in a similar manner to the Heavy SWAT from the last game. Unlike the heavies, the tans are completely immune to shots made against the torso and, due to the wonky hitbox system, are also immune to being shot in the legs. The only way to kill a tan FBI unit is through headshots or shooting them in the back, but good luck doing either action if the tan units come in groups or are paired up with special SWAT.
The sequel, after patch 13 was released, introduced street cops wielding the Bronco .44. The Bronco cops can instantly destroy your armor in one shot no matter what type of armor you wear and can instantly down you on the second shot if your armor hasn't regenerated yet. Yes, you have normal cops that are more dangerous than the Bulldozer.
Fan Dumb: The fan base was pretty well mannered until several events occurred that divided everyone into different camps:
The Troll masks were given out by Overkill towards people who "trolled" the internet over the release date of the Wolf Pack DLC. The masks technically cannot be obtained anymore, but Overkill has randomly given people access to the masks during certain events or towards people who are trolling. This has caused people to complain about how they should get the masks as well and it also caused other people to troll in hopes that they will earn the masks.
The Vyse masks were given out to people who donated to Vyse's charity event and were also promised other promotional gifts for donating. When several months had passed, the people who donated still did not get their promised prizes, to which Vyse explained that he was recently laid off from his job and has lacked funds to cover shipping costs, especially to people who lived outside of the United States, but promised he will get the gifts out at some point or will refund money to people who ask for it. The fans didn't care and they keep harping on Vyse to give them what they want right now while also slamming people who are in the Vyse group (the group that gives you access to the Vyse masks in the game) for "sucking up" to Vyse.
The Secret masks also brewed up a shit storm among the player base for having absurd requirements to obtain it and having a limited amount of time to do it. People were divided on whether the requirements were unfair or people were just being too lazy to try and meet said requirements. The masks also caused people who didn't have them to accuse the people that did have them of being elitist while the other side claims the complainers are just jealous.
PAYDAY 2 also caused the fan base to tear into each other regarding the beta access. The developers randomly picked players from the PAYDAY: The Secret group (around 40 people) to give them access to the beta early as the focus test group where they played the game to stress test connections to other players and possible syncing issues. Everyone else outside of the group loudly complained that they shouldn't have to wait so long to play the beta (reserved for people who pre ordered the more expensive version of the game), fearing that they won't have a lot of time to play the beta if it comes too close to the release of the final version. Other people from the Secret group complained that they weren't picked to play the game early. Most of the people complaining about the beta fail to realize that not everything will be open to play in the beta and that playing a beta version of the game is supposed to be for testing and not actually playing normally. Despite the developers saying they can't give a release date on the beta until everything is good to go, people still demanded a date for the beta.
Even after the beta was released, people were still not satisfied. Despite Overkill clearly stating several times that some updates to the beta will cause progressions to be erased and the final version of the game doing the same thing, people still complain about losing their progress without stopping to think that changes to the skills and weapons systems in terms of unlocking could cause more bugs if they are loaded from a save file pre patch.
The release of PAYDAY 2 came under a massive firestorm of whining and complaining due to several issues the game was released with, such as the game crashing frequently for people or certain mission assets not working properly. Some of the problems were fixed right away while the rest needed time to iron out. People declared Overkill to be lazy and greedy while an Overkill developer fired back by basically saying "We're working on the issues, so please stop acting like jerks to me and everyone else around you."
The fans also attacked the developers themselves when they spoke up and said that the game was complete and nothing was cut out other than a special enemy unit (it was buggy), accusing the developers of lying and using false advertising.
There's also a slew of constant topics in the forums that are complaining about something in the game, whether it's something they want nerfed, something they want buffed, demanding more levels, wanting kicking removed, or anything else. It's hard to find topics that just talk about the game and not complain about something. Naturally, if you try to point this out, you get attacked yourself.
Patch 11 for PAYDAY 2 caused a ton of bugs, namely all armor having no defense value and certain enemies having triple damage. The same patch was also supposed to increase the difficulty of Overkill. People complained about the bugs that made the game harder all around, but some people took the bugs as a feature, liking them, and told everyone else to stop sucking at the game.
A shining example of the fan base's selfishness came to light after Overkill donated $11,000 to someone's charity. The someone in question was Pewdiepie, who apparently is "liked" on YouTube as much as Justin Bieber (not very much). Fans who saw the announcement trashed Overkill for donating to Pewdiepie's charity, saying he doesn't deserve it, and others even said that Overkill should have used the money to further PAYDAY 2.
On the anniversary of PAYDAY: The Heist (2 years old by 2013), Overkill launched a gambling feature in PAYDAY 2 for a limited time where player can spend their off shore money to gamble on specific loot drops. The result was many fans (who had absolutely no idea on how gambling works) crying that the system was broken because they couldn't get specific items while other fans trashed the developers for "adding so little" to the game.
PAYDAY 2 also has a few items in the game that can only be used as long as you're a part of the official PAYDAY 2 Steam group. Joining the group only takes a few seconds to do and there's the few announcements that pop up once a week. Naturally, the fan dumb complained about being "forced" to join a group for exclusive items and called the method behind it as lazy.
Game Breaker: First World Bank had a desk in the manager's office that players could duck under and camp there because the AI of the cops broke whenever everyone went under there. A similar case happened in Slaughterhouse where people who camped on top of a vending machine broke the enemy AI. Both exploits were later patched.
The secret vault introduced a new game breaker with all the gold inside. Even when playing on Easy, players can easily level up by 5 to 20 levels (depending on their level beforehand) and if someone in the crew is using Noob Lube or Mr. Nice Guy, it makes leveling up even easier. Because of this, everyone now plays First World Bank on Easy to level grind effortlessly.
Gameplay Derailment: PAYDAY 2 has the Rats heist where, on the first day, you are supposed to brew meth in order to trade it for intel on day 2 plus extra money if you bring more. If you botch the cooking, the lab explodes. After Overkill tweaked the game to have mutl-day heists give more experience points, people botched the meth cooking on purpose in order to speed run the Rats heist and get a lot of experience points in a short amount of time.
Good Bad Bugs: The game is riddled with glitches, mostly in the form of the map spazzing out because you got to some place you weren't supposed to be at. Most of the time, the glitches are harmless, but a few others can get you stuck (such as a Shield magically pushing you through a wall) and make the level Unwinnable. One grand example of this trope is at the Green Bridge heist where after you reach the escape zone, you can jump over the barricaded door at the bottom of the stairs and wind up falling off the bridge, something you can't do normally.
Another known glitch are dead bodies that rag doll upon death and then certain parts of the body stretches out to such bizarre lengths.
One glitch involving reviving downed players lets you pick up a friend through a wall if they are close enough to you. The developers decided to keep it for the sequel.
Sadly patched out in PAYDAY 2 after people complained it made the game too easy, due to the logic for figuring out if you can revive someone being the exact same logic allowing you to grab bags through walls.
The beta for PAYDAY 2 had a pro job (rare heists) sometimes popping up in the contract list, though the game would crash if the player tried to access it. This was due to a glitch where the pro job wasn't supposed to appear during the beta.
The beta also had objective triggers in certain heists appearing when they weren't supposed to, such as a safe appearing inside a wall in Jewelry Store and burning money with cameras in Bank Heist. Wild Mass Guessing ensued and many people speculated that they found secrets in the game, but they were quickly Jossed after Word of God stated that the events were supposed to be objective triggers for different heists in the same map and they glitched out.
Not sure if this was fixed, but sometimes when a shield unit is downed, the shield can take bullets fired from anyone, making it nice cover if it landed a certain way
The Shield is the worst of the group due to being invincible in the front and makes narrow hallways dangerous because of this. If you have the grenade launcher, then you can easily destroy the Shield no matter where the grenade hits.
Hilarious in Hindsight: People hated the original incarnation of Crime.net where they couldn't choose what level they wanted to play. The system eventually got updated where players could buy levels if they really wanted to play them, which caused people to farm the Rats heist to easily gain experience points and level up quickly. The result of all the farming caused other people to demand that something should be done about the heist to prevent farming. The hilarity comes from the original Crime.net system being created to counter farming in the first place.
Hype Backlash: the beta for PAYDAY 2 caused this for a lot of people. Many fans were hyping the game to be as good as the first game or even better, but when the beta was finally released, many people trashed the game for being full of bugs (not realizing that a beta is not a full polished version of the game) and being severely lacking in content. The final version of the game on release day didn't quell the backlash either.
Hypocritical Fandom: The Secret ARG event presented in the first game divided the fan base for a multitude of reasons. Fans are now wanting a similar ARG event (Overdrill and all) for the sequel, completely ignoring why the first event didn't work out too well.
Fans are also complaining about how PAYDAY 2 feels too much like a grind fest with all the money and EXP they need to get everything, yet they want challenges that the first game had, which was mostly grinding as well since most of the challenges were "Kill X amount of cops with weapon Y".
New Hoxton in PAYDAY 2 has also reached memetic status, mainly due to his "Don't act dumb!" and "I had a bad fucking day!" lines.
Internet Backdraft: The fan base exploded after learning about the final conditions needed to be met in order to see the secret that Overkill kept teasing people about for months with extremely vague and possibly trollish clues. In order to see the secret in First World Bank, every player has to be wearing the golden masks, which can only be obtained by beating the first 6 levels on Overkill 145+. From there, everyone has to stand on specific tiles to make a switch appear and using the switch reveals a hidden door that has to be drilled for two hours in order to open it. From there, to open the hidden vault, players have to press specific tiles in a specific order since doing it wrong releases instant kill gas. What was behind the vault? A cache of gold bars (which are useless to most people attempting the challenge since they're maxed out in their rep levels) and a sneak peak at some masks.
It didn't end there. Players who got into the vault saw a message of congratulations from Overkill and in order to qualify for the masks and other possible prizes, they have to send a video recording showing their successful attempt in reaching the secret vault. On top of this, Overkill stated in the forums that players who have not reached the vault yet would only have 30 days to do it or the secret could possibly be Lost Forever. The fan base was extremely pissed off by the 2 hour wait on the drill, players being excluded from the challenge because they didn't have the golden masks but had helped everyone else were find the clues pointing towards the bank, having to record video proof of their success when not everyone's computers can record and play games at the same time, losing progress when they are disconnected from the game thanks to Steam or their internet service provider's not too stable connection, and the fact that a cache of money and new masks was simply not worth the struggle.
The complaints rose even higher when Overkill made a second prize for the secret group, which was (supposedly) a select few people being chosen to attend an event where they would get to see Payday 2 in person and gotten autographed masks. Even though there are quite a handful of people who got in (852 people to be exact), many others are still sour about being left out, including people within the group who were not picked to go to the event or simply couldn't make it.
The fan base exploded into a nuclear cloud of anger when the developers said they felt the game was "complete", meaning all the main content and components are there and finished. Fans declared Overkill to be complete thieves and liars, saying they were promised more levels before release. When the developers also called out on the nasty behavior of the community, the community fired back by saying the developers are not being "professional".
It's Easy, so It Sucks: Everyone complained about the overall difficulty in PAYDAY 2 being lowered after people originally complained that the game was too difficult. While the game isn't brutally difficult as the first game was, it's nowhere near a cakewalk unless your whole team is very skilled.
Most Annoying Sound: After what he did to you, you will not want to let Matt go out of sheer spite, no matter how many times he begs for forgiveness.
In Panic Room, it's sometimes easier to simply wait for Assaults to end before clearing the roof. Expect Alex to continue nagging constantly during these times.
Player-Preferred Pattern: PAYDAY 2 has the trope show up in the 3rd day of Framing Frames where nearly everyone insists on stealthing the level so they can grab the gold and escape with little resistance. If the stealth fails, expect people to either suicide for a restart or just Rage Quit since no one wants to stick around for the harder hacking objective while being swarmed by cops.
Noob Herder requires you to have three teammates with Noob Lube active and clear any heist on Overkill. While perks don't change ingame on levelups, you lose Noob Lube at level 5, pretty much requiring you to get it in one shot or else have everyone else drop out, reset their stats, and try again.
Don't Lose Face requires you to have beaten every heist on Overkill with no hostage trading. See that block of text immediately below this? That is what has gotten in the way of 99% of the people gunning for this achievement.
On a lesser level, I Pushed The Button And Lived can be irritatingly hard to get, due to the amount of sheer luck involved. The mission? Diamond Heist. The requirement? Enter the vault with the Overkill-only secret door still accessible, get the diamond from inside it, and escape with nobody in custody. Some people have gotten the Don't Lose Face challenge for this mission before this achievement.
Overdrill (formerly known as Tester) is the most enduring and painful achievement to obtain that requires players to meet several requirements first. The team must play the First World Bank on Overkill 145+ difficulty and each player must stand on specific spots in a room to trigger the secret. Once the secret door is revealed, the team then has to use the drill on the door and wait for 2 hours until the drill finishes. After the door opens, the team then has to enter and press specific tiles on the floors to open the secret vault. Pressing the wrong tiles releases gas that instantly incapacitates everyone. Get the vault open and you will have access to tons and tons of gold bars (if your rep level is maxed out, then the money is worthless).
The secret vault was a part of Overkill's Alternate Reality Game that took months to crack. People who gotten inside the vault, recorded it, and sent the video to Overkill Software for verification would get access to the Secret masks. Despite the fact that information on the steps to do the secret are openly available, only 800+ people have actually gotten the secret masks. Previously, players needed to have the gold masks in order to trigger the hidden door and wait 2 hours for the drill to finish. Since the ARG event is over, the drill was changed where it only takes 30 minutes to finish and players can trigger the secret without needing the gold masks or having to play on Overkill 145+.
PAYDAY 2 has several Luck-Based Mission ones that depend on what the RNG felt like doing that day, these include:
Short Fuse: Part of Rats, on Day 3, you need to get out with 7 bags without defusing bombs (two or so suitcases of money won't have a bomb). You may get lucky with an extra money and coke bag that spawn near the escape copter.
Big Deal: Part of Framing Frame, you need 9 paintings from Day 1 (which randomly gives you 5-9).
Guessing Game: Part of Firestarter, on Day 2, you need to cut two wires without knowing if they'll set off the alarm or not.
Cappuccino To Go: Part of the Cafe Escape, you need to get out within 30 seconds of the van arriving, and there's three spots where it'll arrive that are nowhere near each other. The achievement is much easier if you figure out A) exactly when the 30 second timer starts, and B) where to stand to be able to see two of the three potential van locations, but considering most people wear CT Vs in all escapes (slowing them down), there's still the matter of reaching the van in time.
Armored Transport, Payday 2's first substantial DLC, adds a few more to the list:
"But Wait - There's More!" is unlocked by being in an Armored Transport heist when someone picks up the address loot that unlocks the Bonus Train Heist. This alone has, according to Goldfarb, a 20% chance of occurring per heist (in practice, expect it 1% of the time).
"We're Gonna Need a Bigger Boat" requires you to secure 40 bags of shells (which explode if thrown too far or if it gets damaged) in Train Heist. Yes, the same Train Heist that is unlocked by doing the entirely luck-based achievement "But Wait - There's More!", so you can't even go for it without hitting every transport that comes your way hoping for the address to drop. It also doesn't help that sometimes, the physics glitch out and send one bag in a vertical trajectory upwards, only to land back on the pile of 39 other bags you have...
"If you Liked it you Should Have Put a Ring on It" is obtained by hitting any Armored Transport heist carrying gold and securing 9 bags of it. Each convoy can have up to 4 trucks, and each convoy also carries only one type of bag loot (jewelry, cash, or gold). Additionally, each heist only carries a MINIMUM amount of bags that will spawn, it is perfectly possible to get a gold convoy that only has 6 bags. Compounding this is that if you use shaped charges, you remove two safety boxes on each truck you use them on, reducing your chances further. Ouch.
Special Effects Failure: PAYDAY 2 has heister bots and other characters smoking a cigarette before the heist starts. Gangsters in day 2 of "Rats" can be seen smoking cigarettes through their face rags, which is mostly due to all characters sharing the same smoking animation.
You have to use saws on four prison transports in an open environment with cars as your only source of cover, meaning you can easily get flanked, and you will. Repeatedly.
You have to locate and escort ONE specific prisoner to a tower and he will refuse to move if there are cops nearby.
You have to release one or two balloons so that a plane can pick up the prisoner. It is here that most people get fucked over ON NORMAL, the easiest difficulty allowed for the mission. Since you rarely can prepare for the plane picking up your target on the first attempt, you have little time to react and move as the escape countdown begins. Basically, once the target is picked up, the finale of the mission starts and the assault waves are programmed to be endless. Because of this, it's much easier to prepare when the plane comes by the second time instead of the first.
Snipers will spawn in once you reach the tower. Unlike other levels, the snipers are very damn far away from you, making it almost impossible to hit them if you don't have a weapon that has enhanced ADS.
You then have to move to the boat on the bridge and then further down to the extraction point, IN THAT ORDER, after the prisoner is picked up, on a timer with an endless assault. If you stop for any considerable amount of time, you will not survive.
Instead of defending an objective like other levels, much of this heist involves advancing through endless police forces with inadequate cover, wasting most of your health and ammo in the process.
The relatively minor problems of Matt (the guy you have to bring to a certain location) not wanting to go in the right direction half the time (though this has become mildly better through updates) and the shootout of endless police at the very end.
Trying to get to Matt is extremely difficult compared to other levels even on the same difficulty. Early on there is a street you need to get through which is swarming with police. Being a chokepoint, there is no other way through and must be pushed through while being shot losing valuable health in the process. By the time you get to Matt much of your health and ammo will be gone.
Once you get to Matt you have to burn him out of his hiding place, a lengthy process which may take multiple gas canisters depending on how generous the game is. There is little cover to hide behind and enemies come from every direction, making it very hard to survive against. When the fire runs out and someone needs to relight it, if an assault is in process one can very easily be downed in the process. Once Matt gets out the level can continue, but at this point you probably have used up all of your ammo and medical bags, yet you still have 35-40% of the heist to go.
The civilians in this level are basically suicidal lemmings who don't care if you shoot them. Because Heat Street is so wide open, civilians will be running all over the place and will gladly get in your line of fire during the shootouts. Naturally, the cops will exploit civilians by shooting through them to hit you. It's possible to lose several hundred thousand dollars in penalties (or even several million dollars if playing on Overkill 145+ difficulty) if you clear the mission because of all the innocents you shot.
At the start of the heist, you have to destroy all the cameras and unlike cameras in other levels, the cameras here are randomized so you will never find them in the same spot twice in a row. While this is manageable in Single Player due to the reduced amount of Civilians and only having to deal with 3 Cameras, online play increases the amount of Civilians and the Camera count to 6. Playing with friends? The game will further increase the camera count to 9.
After the cameras are destroyed, you have to keep all the hostages down and make sure they don't run off to hit the panic button. Once again, this is mitigated in Single Player with the reduced amount of Civilians (but only on Normal difficulty) as well as the Civilians only being present in the lobby and a few around the elevator, but becomes really unfair in Online play, where the Civilians are everywhere. Not to mention the hassles caused by the phone (which may summon a Guard, or worse, a Repairman who counts as a Civilian), and the correct patient file being spread around the lobby (there's around thirty total files!).
If the alarm IS triggered at this point, access to the ICU is closed and you have to waste 3 minutes cutting through with a saw, and then spend even more time using the saw on all 3 shutters (one at a time to boot) trying to find the right patient to draw blood from. This can be negated if the alarm hasn't been triggered, and Dr. Erikson will describe the three ICU patients in advance (keep an ear out for any descriptions among the line of "We're slowly losing him").
Once you do get some blood samples, you have to validate them in devices spread out in the area. Because this portion is luck based, you can wind up wasting time because the game decides not to let you have any valid blood samples, forcing you to get more to validate and try again. If you get knocked down while holding a validated blood sample, there's a high chance that your sample will break, forcing you to go get another one!
The majority of the playing field are in narrow hallways, which makes trying to get around Shield SWAT units a pain in the ass and the cops can easily flank you from both sides.
The rooftops are basically hell due to the absurd amount of snipers that are on the opposite buildings across the street and you're forced to run the rooftop when it's time to escape. If the power goes out and the circuit breaker to use is on the roof, you will probably spend more time trying to shoot the distant snipers than getting to the circuit breaker.
The payout for finishing the level is very low. It's below $1 million even on Normal. This is due to "something the players are missing" in the level, according to the developers. Since no one knows what the secret is yet, most people avoid playing Undercover since the payout is not worth the frustrations.
Panic Room is pretty manageable until Alex has to come in to lower the winch from his helicopter. Alex won't lower the winch until the entire roof area is cleared of cops (not including snipers). What many people don't know is you have to kill a set number of cops that keep spawning on the adjacent roofs as they take their positions, but this goes out the window during assaults since cops can keep spawning on the roof unless you have your team go to the first floor and force the assault wave to follow you down there. If the cops start spawning on the roof during assault waves, then don't expect the roof to get cleared out until the assault is over. Until then, expect to hear "You guys need to clear the roof!" over and over again. For added fun, you have to defend the helicopter again in the same circumstances once the magnet is attached to the panic room.
Big Oil from PAYDAY 2:
If you refuse to play on single-player, you will need either totally cooperative strangers or friends. Playing with neither of these will screw up the entire heist before it's started. Additionally, the heist depends on getting the right intel and identifying which of the several machines is the only correct one.
Day 1 requires you to steal intel from a gang. Getting caught before gathering it all means the gang will try to burn it, and since it tends to be on three/four separate floors, you need to be stealthy or carefully plan an assault. Failure turns Day 2 into a guessing game.
On Day 2, figuring out the right machine requires remembering intel and checking info on boards around the basement to figure it out. If you're playing with the wrong people, expect someone to assume it's a standard heist and begin urgently bagging up all the machines indiscriminately. In other words, they begin piling them into unmarked bags (i.e. making the machines impossible to tell apart) and try to charge to the chopper; since it can take around five minutes to summon the chopper and have the machines checked one at a time for authenticity, expect to die or run out of ammo before you find the right one.
It is not as bad as it sounds if you know where to look. To figure out the right engine, you only need three infos (gas, amount of nozzles and pressure) and all three can be found via notes spread on Day 2. Looking for said notes might even be easier than the intel, which can actually contain wrong infos at times.
Framing Frame from PAYDAY 2:
Day 3 requires stealing intel from a senator or (should you fail the stealth) uploading incriminating data to his computer. However, the biggest pain arises from the senator's gold vault; should the team ever be discovered, even if they've already secured one or more bags of gold, the rest must be abandoned and the stealth approach must be dropped. Naturally, these can mean a misstep of one person can leave the team without the achievement/trophy and with only a fraction of what they could have stolen.
Rats from PAYDAY 2 is probably the biggest pain of them all:
Firstly, the mission comes with escape sub-missions. If you fail any objectives in the first two days (i.e. fail to cook any meth on Day 1 or start a shoot out on Day 2) then an additional escape stage has to be played.
Day 1 is easily the hardest day of the three as, upon finding the client's crystal meth cooks are dead, the group has to make meth whilst fighting off cops. Did someone use the wrong ingredient or do anything in the wrong order? The meth lab explodes, setting the entire second floor aflame and incapping anyone caught by surprise. It doesn't help that Bain can either be confusing with what to put in by fumbling between ingredients or combining names, or he'll tell you the wrong ingredient completely on the first time he's saying which ingredient to put in. The best way around this is either to wait for Bain to say the ingredient again (which 9 times out of 10 he'll be very specific) or if you have another player, you both agree he said the same ingredient.
Day 2 is not much better. If you have no meth, then the gangsters will open fire and try to burn their intel before you can reach it. If you don't have enough meth, if a player does one of several things (such as try to take the meth back or point a gun around), if the gangsters just decide to screw you over, or if the cops get wind of the deal, then they may or may not open fire because you've cheated them on a deal, forcing you to fight through them anyway.
Day 3 requires killing a bunch of gangsters and stealing their loot. However, should you fail to diffuse the bombs, then any bags you failed to save will be destroyed, significantly reducing your PAYDAY prize.
Armored Transport in PAYDAY 2. All of the variations of the heist has cops swarming in from every which way and they all spawn close to you, meaning you will be under fire a lot. Downtown and Park is even worse due to cover being almost non existent. All the maps for Armored Transport require you to move bags of money or gold across a good distance, so have fun being shot at while trying to move bags.
They Changed It, Now It Sucks: Certain music tracks were replaced with different tracks and people naturally complained about it. The music composer stated that some of the songs they used they didn't have full rights to and they had to change the music because of it.
There were also complaints made when the game had its overall difficulty dropped (including making Diamond Heist and Slaughterhouse playable on Normal as the minimum instead of Hard), which is probably why Overkill 145+ was added shortly after.
Previews of the sequel had generated complaints of the HUD looking ugly compared to the one in the first game. When it was announced that the sequel would also completely omit ally AI in order to focus on the co-op experience, many people hated the idea of being forced to play with others and that single player mode will become a One-Man Army trope. The complaints quickly died down once Overkill addressed the complaints and changed things to settle the complaining.
The web series teaser trailer for Payday 2 also generated complaints of Hoxton not looking or sounding like he does in the actual game. Similar complaints were made for the rest of the crew.
Dallas now has his old voice-actor again. However, he still has the model of the new version.
PAYDAY 2 nerfed the Cable Guy skill, which gives players 5 cable ties (5 hostages essentially) instead of the original 10 cable ties used during the beta. People then complained that stealthing was pointless without a mass amount of ties to use. Overkill listened and buffed the skill to include 6 ties instead.
Patch 11 for PAYDAY 2 increased the aggression for the cops and made the Bulldozer more durable, causing massive complaints from people saying the game is too hard. This is after the Fan Dumb complained that the game was too easy...after complaining the game was too hard at the start of beta.
Patch 12 fixed what made patch 11 broken (too many Bulldozer spawns, blue SWAT and gangsters doing more damage than normal, etc). The result was people who liked the broken difficulty complaining that the game is now easy again thanks to the "casuals" complaining.
Similarly, a hotfix for patch 13 dialed back the amount of Shield units that spawned since they were spawning in groups of 6 or more at a time. Players complained about the fix, saying Overkill took away the only challenge the game had.
The Scrappy: Matt due to how he screwed the crew over, forcing them to wade through a near endless assault waves of cops and SWAT units in the streets, refusing to leave the wrecked van, and when he finally leaves the van, the crew discovers he handcuffed the suitcase of money to his arm. The crew's first idea is to chop Matt's arm off, but due to the circumstances, they are forced to drag Matt all the way to the overpass and wait for their escape chopper to arrive so everyone and the money can escape. With Heat Street being That One Level, Matt is obviously well hated.
The Taxman in Undercover also counts due to how you are forced to yell at him several times before he gives up the passwords to the server and you have to do it 3 times since there are 3 passwords to use. Smacking him around with your gun may speed up the process, but you also run the risk of knocking Taxman out cold for a few minutes, delaying your progress.
Ralph and Giant are also heavily disliked due to them refusing to move along if there's cops around and sometimes they will refuse to move at all until the assault wave ends, which can last for several minutes. They'll also stop moving if a cop is approaching from off screen!
Uncanny Valley: All the characters in the game never blink or have any facial expressions. Their faces are completely frozen.
Unpleasable Fanbase: The entire Overdrill concept broke the community into many fragments. People first complained about how ridiculous the requirements were to do the achievement the first time (Gold masks, Overkill 145+, wait 2 hours, then do the tile codes) and now people are complaining it's too easy to Level Grind from the Overdrill (any mask, any difficulty, 30 minute wait, enter tile codes).
The beta for PAYDAY 2 unleashed the trope in spades. The first build of the beta was trashed for having too many enemies and having equipment needed for survival (body armor, a better gun, etc.) restricted to a high rep level. A patch addressed the issues by making enemies spawn less frequently during assault waves and body armor being available a lot sooner. People then complained that the overall difficulty was too easy. Patch 11 in the full version of the game ramped up the difficulty across the board and made the Bulldozer more difficult to take down, which then caused people to complain that, once again, the game was too hard. Too hard, to too easy, and back to being too hard. Overkill just can't win.
The beta also caused people to complain that money was too hard to come by to buy weapons and other items. Overkill added a money card to the random drop system so that players can get a chance in earning extra cash at the end of a successful heist. Cue people now complaining they are getting too many money cards and not enough weapon mods or mask cards. With that said, the random loot system also has numerous complaints due to the low general chance of getting any one item to drop (there are hundreds of weapon mods AND hundreds of masks and mask mods, and what you unlock is essentially 100% random), and the cash cards drop relatively trivial amounts of cash ($16,000 seems to be the high end, whereas even an easier heist like Bank Heist on Hard mode it's possible to clear $100,000 if you get most of the deposit boxes.) Not to mention the legions of "git gud scrub" types on the forums attacking literally any complaint about the game's balance as wanting another Call of Duty shooter for some reason.
Subsequent patches made costs go from too expensive to too scarce - there are many players who, just after a few dozen hours, have more money than they're capable of spending, have hit the level cap, and haven't unlocked anything they'd actually use because of the totally RNG-based nature of the loot drops, which means people bank sometimes millions of dollars and can't spend any of it in a useful manner.
The beta was also filled with cheaters (people who modified their game files) that bypassed the max level limit and unlocked all skills and equipment when they weren't supposed to. People were angry that they kept running into people that cheated and made the game too easy for everyone. Overkill responded by adding more security in the patches and also made it against the forum rules to be talking about cheaters or showing off screenshots and videos of them. note The reason behind the ruling was to curb people posting about cheaters out of hysterics and cause panic. The ruling was also enforced due to Overkill already stating that they are working on the security issues and don't need more topics of "When will the cheaters get banned!?" or topics of people trying to publicly shame cheaters, which could cause flame wars. Instead of being relieved that cheating was going to be squashed, people cried that Overkill was enforcing censorship and fascism.
PAYDAY 2 is blasted for having the difficulty be too easy across the board. Patch 5 addressed the issue somewhat by preventing people from grabbing loot bags or reviving people through walls, which then cause people to complain that such a change wasn't needed.
PAYDAY 2 also came with numerous bugs and other issues that people complained about, but surprisingly enough, Overkill had released no less than 9 patches in the span of 2 weeks since the game's launch. Think the fast fixes pleased the fan base? Nope, because the fans then complained that the game should have been delayed to make the game more stable and other fans are complaining the updates add no new content. Damned if you do...
Crime.net in PAYDAY 2 was widely hated for not allowing people to pick whatever level they wanted to play (the system has levels pop up randomly to discourage farming). Overkill listened and they added a filter to let players see what games or lobbies were in whatever specific heist the player wanted to see and they also allowed players to "buy" contracts, meaning they could play any level they wanted as long as they wanted to spend a few million dollars from their offshore account (which is easy to make). No points for guessing how the players reacted to the change.