GT is perhaps one of the few shows with a Gainax Beginning. First and most important, why is Pilaf even alive? Considering all that happened in Z, he should have been killed by Buu and not revived later. No Pilaf, NO GT!
Because Pilaf and his gang aren't evil, the fact that they are also alive in the Battle of Gods film prove that. The only villains that wouldn't be revive were those who were pure evil and the Pilaf gang don't fall in that group.The Pilaf. Hell, the Dragon revived guys like Spike, the Devilman and Giran. Really, the only villain that was still alive when Buu killed everyone on earth and likely wasn't revived would be Mercenary Tao, because he never changed.
Why is Pilaf so old when in Battle of Gods him and his gang are kids? That's probably Toriyama's "screw you" to GT, since it's confirmed that GT is non-canon.
Why not wish the Black star Dragonballs back with the regular ones?
Goku's skin tone has completely changed to a very tanned complexion for no reason. Nobody else seems to have had any such issues.
Spending a long time in the sun tends to make you very, very tanned.
Then it should have happened a long time ago.
There's also Trunk's hair going from whitish-purple in Z to a more overt (but still light) shade of purple in GT.
Why did Goku lose his instant transmission technique when he was turned into a child? Apart from being a convenient way of justifying the "Grand Tour", why could he only use it as a Super Saiyan 4?
I think it's because as a child the first time around, he didn't know instant transmission, so his child-body wasn't used to it.
He also couldn't fly, turn Super Saiyan, shoot out ki blasts, and sense energy as a child but yet he kept those abillities. it actually pretty inconsistent,and it's clearly just for the sake of plot convenience to justifying the "Grand Tour" they couldn't have Goku simply teleporting to each planet with the dragonballs and gathering them all up with in a week or so. If they did there would be no "Grand Tour" and the series would be over in less than 10 episode. Admittingly it is bad writing.
It was power based. He wasn't strong enough as a child to do it properly. He actually does IT at one point and it works.....but craps out after a few yards. His child body just couldn't properly manage the techniques he used as an adult. Same reason SS 3 gave out after a few seconds. SS 4 gave him his adult body back, and let him regular his power properly.
There absolutely nothing before GT the even suggest that IT requires anymore power than turning super sayain, flying, sensing ki and firing powerful ki blasts, all those ability he also didn't has as a child too and yet all those powers where left (for the most part )well intact. Granted IT requires more concentration since the move require a person to be good at sensing ki. but according what fans say Goku ki sensing ability has improve greatly (even as a child) to the point where he can now sense robot's energy which before was impossible before. so that's really no excuse.
Not necessarily. Instant Transmission has a bad habit of changing its rules for the sake of the plot, but it is usually pretty consistent on one thing: Goku can only go somewhere he can sense energy. If the Dragonballs landed on a dead planet, Goku would still need a ship to get it. Also, there's no telling how difficult it would be to coordinate "the Dragon Radar says that-a-way" and "I can sense energy in that general direction". IT has been used pretty much exclusively to travel between known allies and enemies, not for scavenger hunts. Goku losing it as a child may have been bad writing, but there would have been ample reason to go on a Grand Tour regardless.
The start of GT. Goku and Uub emerge from the Hyperbolic Time Chamber after their training. Never mind what Goku said earlier on that a person can only enter it twice in a lifetime or only for two years. And for some reason the whole chamber has changed from a featureless white landscape to some sort of asteroid belt-esque environment. If Goku's power level has increased the way he claims while fighting Rildo, just how long were those two training in there?
Perhaps it's destruction by Buu and recreation by the Dragon Balls allows it to qualify as an entire new chamber? If you wanna complain I think it makes more sense to complain about it being a fairly major plot point that only two could enter at a time in the Cell Saga (and had they gone in with more people they would have gotten better results most likely) and by the next saga it's all "Look four people can fit in here no problem!"
And their fight is damaging the lookout on the outside, without the need to punch dimensional holes through it. Either Goku in base form and Uub are far stronger than Majin Buu fused with everyone, or something just doesn't add up.
The entire lookout contains a separate pocket dimension if Z's filler Garlic Jr. Saga is to be interpreted as canon - not a far stretch considering movie characters were attacking the planet when Super 17 started. It's possible Goku and Uub could've been training in that. Hard to explain the lookout's battle damage, though.
GT doesn't even make sense on the relative strengths of the characters. When Kaioshin wants to restore Goku's power, Old Kaioshin tells him there's no way he can replenish the energy supply of a Super Saiyan 4. But next episode we see 3 Super Saiyans and a normal Pan do precisely just that, all of whom shouldn't even add up to Super Saiyan 2! I mean it should reasonably take at least 10000 of them to match the power of a Super Saiyan 4.
It gets worse in the Shadow Dragon saga where just the 3 Super Saiyans alone have enough energy to overload Gokubeyond his normal Super Saiyan 4 limits, never mind that GT shows him to be far stronger than all of them in base form!!
This is another one on Power Levels. Kid Goku in base form beats Rildo's base and claims it was stronger than Buu!!?? That's an increase beyond Super Saiyan 3! And so Kid Goku being stronger than 2 Super Saiyan 2s? In DBZ, after seven years of afterlife training, Goku's real boost came from Super Saiyan 2 and 3. His Super Saiyan form was only marginally stronger in Buu Saga and the exponential power growth in any level more or less stopped once he mastered it.
Speaking of Rildo, if he's stronger than Buu, then how do you reconcile that with what happened in Z. I mean are the Kais not even remotely worried about the fate of the universe?
Super Saiyan Goku seems to be absurdly stronger than what the Super Saiyan level itself ought to permit. On the other side we have Vegeta, who in spite of all his training is somehow far weaker at Super Saiyan 2 and goes out in one shot against Super 17!
And that's not very consistent either. Base Goku can defeat Cell with the audacity of riding Frieza's disks like a surfboard, but can't resist when he's frozen in ice and relies on natural body heat to melt it. Yeah...now we've seen everything.
Majuub is yet another mystery. He fares much better against Baby Vegeta than Super Saiyan 3 Goku. In Super 17 saga, he goes out in one hit, proving himself to be far weaker than Super Saiyan Goku, who puts up a decent fight. What just happened to him over a few weeks?
Speaking of Majuub, you wonder why being stronger than Gohan, Goten, Trunks and possibly even Vegeta, he isn't giving any energy to Goku. Despite absorbing Buu, he seems to lack the ability to regenerate. What to speak of injuries, he can't even replenish his power the way Kid Buu could.
Majuub was turned into chocolate and eaten. He can reverse the transformation, but he waits till Baby Vegeta's become a full ape and then causes a significant amount of internal damage. What was he doing till then? If he had done that while Baby was still down to size, it would have been game over then and there, (though the implications would have been Body Horror).
Why was Majuub not able to beat Super 17 all by himself? Both halfs of Super 17 are weaker than SSJ2 and both half of Majuub are about SSJ3 level. You do the math something doesn't add up. And yet Goku as SSJ1 did better than him when fighting Super 17. Looks like only Goku benefited from all that training they did.
That's already covered.
Forget Majuub, Piccolo should be easily capable of killing an enemy who's only twice as strong as 17 in one hit. 17 was trash the moment the ROSAT was introduced, and everyone who went in is now dozens of times stronger than 17.
Well to be fair it is possible that the other 17 could be much stronger than the original 17 and they their fusion could have increase their strength much more than 2 times. Of course this doesn't explain why Majuub did worst fighting against him than SSJ1 Goku.
Perhaps 17 has been training just like everybody else over the last few years. We know from 18 giving birth to Marron that Androids 17 & 18 are not robots. They are humans with cybernetic enhancements and we don't even know what those enhancements actually do. Presumably Android Krillin or Yamcha would be absolute monsters compared to 17 & 18 which as far as we know were just regular old humans with a power level probably beneath 10.
Nope, andriods don't get stronger especially 17, 18 they power level will remain the same no matter what. So they can't tired no matter how long they fight or weaker even if don't train for years but that also mean they don't get stronger even if they do train.
That is pure conjecture. They have cybernetic parts that gave them their initial power yes but saying they can't train is like saying a man with a gun can't learn martial arts or a man with a forklift can't lift weights. In their case they could easily learn martial arts. I know DBZ favors raw power over technique in everything after the middle of the Namek Saga but the androids are just that, raw power with zero training. There isn't even any indication that like Android 20 they were even given full combat schematics on their opponents.
Isn't there any way to destroy the dragonballs without killing their creator? Can't Piccolo just deactivate the black star Dragonballs, or at the very least modify them? How come he just forgot about them like that? In that case, the whole plot in DBZ of getting Dende to be Earth's guardian would be totally unnecessary, wouldn't it?
It's certainly possible. King Piccolo back in Dragon Ball was able to disable the dragon balls by blowing Shenron up, and in the Buu saga, Piccolo warned Gotenks against recklessly throwing energy blasts around, out of fear that a stray blast might end up destroying a dragon ball.
For some reason, characters in GT, while stronger in theory than Z in fact seem much weaker when you compare the intensity of the fights to DBZ.
I must say I disagree with this point completely - the fact they are more powerful is why the fights are less intense. They now do so much damage with each punch; cause so many injuries with one ki wave that the battles are over far quicker. Lets take a real life example: World War 1. Our lack of technology, tactical planning, foresight and abundance of manpower still led to the second most devastating war in history, stalemating into four years of trench warfare. Now, imagine if you will, what would would happen if WW1 was repeated in the 21st century? nuclear warfare. I can guarantee the main battle wouldn't last four years just as I can guarantee if you put the Dragon Ball GT era Z Fighters against any of the Dragon Ball Z era enemies it wouldn't have been a Saga-spanning 30 episode battle.
That don't make any sense so because they're Stronger their battle are less intense? So why wasn't that the case when you compare Dragon Ball Z to dragon ball? By logic the fights scene in Dragon ball should be more intense the fights in Dragon Ball Z (which they are NOT). Seriously when SSJ3 Goku fought Kid Buu the force they unleashed nearly destroy the planet it caused earthquakes fissures and massive creators it's rocked the Kai's planet to it foundation they had evacuate. but in GT where SS 4 Goku ,SS 4 vegeta fought omega Shenron they barely destroyed a city. and that is because they became stronger?
Piccolo was hurt by a Bebi possessed Gohan way back in Baby Saga. He's thrown into a trench and is gone for the rest of the saga. Then just before Goku leaves the exploding Earth, Piccolo appears again, still injured, despite the fact that he should be able to regenerate. What, did he just get so frustrated by being Demoted to Extra that he gave up the will to live all together?
Just one major issue. Planet Plant/Vegeta's gravity is 10x that of earth as mentioned in Dragon Ball Z. So how come Mr. Satan or for that matter any of the human beings who were transported to the planet never got crushed by the heavy gravity or for that matter didn't even notice it?
Speaking of which it's a headscratcher how a planet with more gravity that the earth could orbit it.
It has more gravity on the surface. The planet could be much denser than Earth but also much smaller, giving it a smaller mass. This would give it larger gravity on the surface but less of a pull at long distances.
This isn't remotely correct. Gravity follows the inverse square law. More Gravity = More Mass. I don't remember the specific dialogue on the subject, but the two bodies would have orbited a shared center of gravity. It's a minor distinction as the view from either planet would make it seem like the other was orbiting it.
That doesn't explain the immunity to 10x gravity though.
Mr. Satan is considerably more powerful than we think he is. Think about it, by the time we meet Mr. Satan it's safe to assume that even the weakest Z Fighter can handle 100x gravity. Consider back to Goku's arrival on Namek and the fight with Cell. Vegeta couldn't SEE Goku's movements after training at 100x gravity. By the end of the Cell saga everybody present seems if not easily keeping up with the battle able to catch most of it. Mr. Satan could easily be very strong by any standard that doesn't involve blowing up buildings.
We are not just talking about satan. Almost all the humans on earth was able to withstand 10x earth gravity in GT like it was nothing. Which is stupid, back in early DBZ Goku with a power level of 300-1000 had a hard adjusting to 10x earth gravity, but now these ordinary humans with a power level of 5 are able to walk on Planet Vegeta perfectly fine!
Mr. Buu turns Satan and Pan into candy and eats them to keep them safe(!!??) inside him so they can get to planet Vegeta. But even more, Mr. Satan seems to be quite ok and even speaks as a piece of candy. Who was the only one powerful enough to do things like that before? Vegetto... What?
I'm going to guess the handwave here is that because Buu wants him to retain his free will as a candy; Hercule has no problem whatsoever in doing it. You could also say that seeing as Vegetto was transformed by Super Buu fused with Gohan/Piccolo/Trunks/Goten as opposed to the relatively weak fat Buu it's far easier to resist whatever magics are behind this technique. For the record I agree with you that it's another one of GT's notorious plot holes but if you stretch credibility to breaking point it is possible to explain this in-universe.
That, or it's Fridge Horror in that the same thing happened to Buu's victims in Z, but they were still powerless to resist being digested and could only scream in horror at being eaten.
The fight with Super 17 is grossly exaggerated in effects compared to all the other fights in the DB universe. One punch from Goku throws Super 17 to the other side of the planet and one from the android sends him into space and beyond. Ki blasts are now able to circumnavigate the globe. Compare this with the Shadow Dragon saga where Super Saiyan 4 Goku is trying to run for his life from Omega Shenron's blasts just powerful enough to blow up parts of the roller coaster in an amusement park.
Anyone noticed that once 4 Super Saiyans restore Goku's Super Saiyan 4 power, he has no injuries on him, despite the fact that he was badly hurt just moments before?
Goku can't properly sustain Super Saiyan 2 in his kid body? What about Gohan way back in Z?
Why was Piccolo in Paradise instead of with Grand Kai? Was it just for drama so he'd have to be trapped in Hell instead of just going down there like Pikkon and Goku have done?
And why does King Yemma refuse to send Piccolo down to hell, prompting Piccolo to wipe out a lot of the afterlife...that was not a problem in DBZ.
In DBZ, being killed in the afterlife means becoming Deader than Dead. In GT, Goku kills Frieza and Cell, and they just regenerate because they're already dead. WHAAAAAT?
Well, consider the following. Before the deader than dead rule was established, it had actually been demonstrated that someone who was killed in the afterlife simply regenerated. It was established in anime only filler, I will grant you, but there's precedent for it, is the point. Secondly, the deader than dead rule is never actually proven. It's theorized and feared, but we never see it in action. Thirdly, it's easily handwaved by saying that if Buu kills you in the afterlife, you're deader than dead, because Buu breaks the rules of the universe, but that most anyone else killing a soul in the afterlife would have no real affect.
Yes it was demonstrated and flat out stated in the Grand Kai filler that the dead can't die again. The only problem with your point is that is filler! which pretty much negates your whole defense.Fillers in general have a tendency to created plot holes with the main story.Which is why they're usually disregarded by fans and the author. You're suggesting that we should total disregard a rule established in canon (granted we never saw it in action) for a rule shown only in filler and nowhere else( which basically means it never happen). I mean GT was suppose to be canon right?
Why did they even try to used the earth dragon balls to revive krillin anyway? He already been revived by them once. So they can't do it again! It wouldn't had worked even if the earth Dragon balls had not been over used.
Also how the hell was Shenron able to bring Krillin back to life?! The earth Dragon ball can't revive a person more than once. This was a major plot point in DBZ.
That goes double for many of the people on earth who had been Cell's victims in DBZ.
And as per the GT files, Android 17 was also brought back to life by the same wish, which shouldn't be possible either as he was already brought back after Cell's destruction.
Why didn't they just kill Dende when the Shadow Dragons popped up? Or use the Namek balls to wish the negative energy away? If they killed Dende, it would deactivate the balls, killing the dragons. Then go to Namek, wish him back, with the stipulation that the Earth Dragon Balls don't reactivate. Then make new Dragon Balls, and bring everyone back with them.
Oh good idea. Ask a bunch of Blood Knights who are also very sensitive about their friends and loved ones being hurt, to kill one of their friends so they can avoid fighting some really powerful opponents, and pray to God you won't get a boot to the head as an answer.
Killing Dende would have killed the Original Shenron effortlessly but it is pretty ridiculous to imagine that the Shadow Dragons weren't completely self-sustaining entities; realistically the last point you could have executed that plan was when the final crack appeared on the final Dragonball. Incidentally, if it was a viable tactic you wouldn't have needed to kill Dende at all but rather destroy the Shenron Toy that is kept upon the Lookout.
The whole fight between Goku and Super 17. How can Goku be such The Ditz not to confirm that Super 17 was absorbing all his energy after all his experiences with the Androids, until he spent almost all his power making Super 17 stronger than him?
Speaking of Super 17, Goku's so weak at the end he can barely stand. Then the next minute he senses Super 17 can't fight while absorbing and somehow summons enough energy in a thoroughly exhausted base form to put a Super Dragon Fist and multiple Kamehamehas through Super 17 and destroying the android who's supposed to be stronger than Super Saiyan 4!! GT Logic anyone?
How the hell is Trunks able to detect No. 17's Ki, and is even able to compare it with that of No. 18... despite the fact that a major plot point in the background of the two androids when they were first encountered back in Dragon Ball Z was that they didn't radiate Ki at all! This isn't even the first time this happen in this show. the same thing happen with General Rildo. Goku was able to detect Rildo's Ki and compare it with Majin Buu in spite of the fact he is also a machine an shouldn't have Ki at all. Heck they were even able to sense Dr.gero's Ki! Which is silly because what made Dr.gero so dangerous back in DBZ was the fact they could not detect him.
If you wanted to be generous and provide an in-universe explanation the Z Fighters just got better at sensing energy. The first time round the Androids batteries were completely unlike anything they had encountered before; by GT however they had all lived with 18 for over a decade giving them plenty of time to hone their techniques.
Androids 17 and 18 are not machines. They are people with artificial parts. Remember 18 is sufficiently human that she was able to GIVE BIRTH to Marron, who as far as anybody can tell is 100% run of the mill standard human. She and 17 might have energy roughly on par with Turtle but just like fish, grass and algae they do have Ki.
So why couldn't any of the z-fighter or even cell detect them? This not some fan theory this was a major plot point in the Cell saga. Cell couldn't sense android 17 and 18 ki which gave him a hard finding them. The only reason why Cell was able to find the two was because he was sensing Piccolo ki and just assumed he was fighting 17 and 18. also if their ki was detectable why did Cell needed to check island by island order to flush them out if he could have just followed their ki signaure?
Their ki (which was also confirmed in the Buu Saga when both of them can be seen giving energy for the Spirit Bomb) is probably roughly on par with Master Roshi's turtle. Nearly impossible to spot but it is there. Having spend a more than a decade along side her may have just allowed the Z-Fighters to figure out how to hone in on her. Prior to that her energy level was so low and so many things around her had equal or higher levels (Remember when Vegeta tracks down a FISH on Namek? The islands have deer and other animals, the ocean has fish and whales. Figuring out which tiny blip was 18 could be impossible. Or it could just be a Plot Hole. GT does that. A LOT.
Like I said if you wanted to be generous you could come up with an in-universe explanation. Real world its GT plot hole number 3476.
16 did warn 18 against using energy attacks against Cell during the island bombardment because Cell could sense the attacks even though he couldn't sense her.
and what's your point ?
The androids clearly use some sort of energy akin to ki to function, I always thought the problem was that the energy they used was artificial and separate from the Ki used by organic life, meaning they couldn't sense it at first. After years of living with the androids, they learned to pick up on the energy signature of androids and machines similar to how they can sense ki.
But once again other characters like Pan and Uub also had this ability in spite of the fact they were never exposed to that kind of energy. Also if Goku and his friends' ki sensing ability improved so much to the point where he can now sense ki from machine then why couldn't he or anyone else sense Pilaf, Chu and Mai approaching the lookout? Which also raises the question if sense ki from machine is possible then why couldn't future trunks do it? He spend most of life fighting against machines.
In addition General Rildo isn't even android he is a machine mutant.
So Goku can now sense ki from machines apparently (in spite of the fact machines don't have ki) yet he couldn't sense Pilaf, Chu and Mai approaching the lookout to steal the black star dragon balls. They are living life forms riding in machines and apparently Goku can ki from both living thing and machine so there is no excuse for him, Uub, Dende, and Mr. Popo for not sensing them coming from a mile away.
Where did all the movie villains come from in that saga? Of all things, please, please, don't tell me they actually recycled non-canon script?
Golden-ape Baby needs two full power Galic Guns to blow the earth? I mean Buu could do that with a small blast.
And when he's powering up his Galic Gun, Goku just stands there doing absolutely nothing except listening to "World of Cardboard" Speech until Baby actually fires the blast, after which he seems to realize he has to stop it. And he instead gets hit before he can power up another blast. Was he thinking his own Kamehameha would kick in by then?
In the Shadow Dragon saga, the whole fight against Rage Shenron. Goku goes from base to Super Saiyan 4 and the power change isn't that convincing. Then Rage Shenron uses slime to absorb electricity from a puny source like the city's power grid, which doesn't even generate sparks by Dragonball's energy standards and then becomes strong enough to stop a 10x Kamehameha dead in it's tracks and surpass Goku (who's long since passed the point where he should be able to blow up multiple planets in base form) and Pan. What happened to the Law of Conceivable Conservation of energy?
Speaking of that Kamehameha, it was at full power and was thrown right back at him. We expected at the very least that the whole solar system ought to be blown up. All we get instead is a ruined street, a few broken buildings and Goku back to his child form. Never mind that afterwards he has enough power to fight 4 more dragons at Super Saiyan 4 without so much as a healing or a senzu bean. Now how did he do that?
And they're only saved by Deus ex Machina raining down and shorting him out.
When the Shadow Dragons are released, the rest of the cast goes home without so much as an offer to help and it's all up to Goku to go fight them? Were they happily taking a nap when he was fighting 6 out of 7 dragons all by himself?
And if he was fully healed when he absorbed everyone's energy and went Super Saiyan 4+, how come he didn't realize it?
Yamcha has said several times he wanted to get married more then anything else, got giddy at the thought of starting a family as late as the Android saga, and Future Trunks briefly mentions that Yamcha finds a new love in his timeline. With these things in mind why is Yamcha consistently shown to be single, even shown to be living alone in Diablo Desert with Puar back in Dragon Ball GT? Are we to believe that Yamcha just gave up on his lifelong dream in addition to already giving up on Martial arts?
The 10x Super Kamehameha isn't very consistent. It started out as two blue spheres combined into one (actually this makes it less powerful than charging an attack with two hands together). And while it does nothing to hurt Baby at first, after Baby's fired an equally powerful blast at Goku and knocked him flat, it suddenly kicks in and attacks him from inside out, trashing him. If the dub line is to be believed, Goku was expecting all this to happen. What in the world was that all about?
And then later in the series turns into this orange red beam.
The level of collateral damage just doesn't add up to the characters' power levels and the energy they ought to be putting into their attacks. In most cases, they're actually causing less damage on the Earth then most fights in Z. I can understand the So Last Season thing in Dragon Ball Z, but this is going beyond all reason.
The BIGGEST headscratcher. Omega Shenron regenerates and proceeds on a Foe-Tossing Charge knocking out Goku and all his friends, including Mr. Satan, Videl and Chi chi! That's right. Mr. Satan survived a full power kick from Omega Shenron WITHOUT A SCRATCH!!!!. To put that in perspective, those punches completely brought down Gohan, Goten, Trunks and Pan, while Goku at Super Saiyan 4 was broken so bad he was struggling to stand afterwards! WHAAAAAAAAAAT???!!!
Mr. Satan has the strongest Plot Armor in the entire series (Heck, he hasn't died once ever since his first appearance). That and plenty of Rule of Funny.
The more you look at GT, the worse it gets. In the last episode we see Yamcha in the desert and Tien and Chaoutzu training off near a waterfall. Oh yeah, they were totally not bothered by all that happened in the Baby Saga, being possessed, the earth exploding, Super 17 and the Dimensional Collapse and all the villains leaving hell, and least of all the Shadow Dragons and all that negative energy around the globe. Talk about throwing in the towel. GT just forgot they were even there!
Just what the hell were they supposed to do? They lost relevance in the middle in the Cell Games Saga and most of the MOOKS are stronger than Buu!
At the very least they could have been shown as victims of all the stuff that happened or they might have at least become mooks of Baby, but it's very strange that GT made it look like it was an Alternate Reality in which they never existed at all. They didn't even contribute to defeating the villains that escaped from hell, most of whom would have been Cannon Fodder for them. How in the world could they completely remain unaffected by everything that happened around them, unless they never existed in the script till the last episode?
How the hell did Dr. Gero and Dr. Myu manage to make a perfect copy of 17? In hell?!?
Except Android 17 is technically a cyborg not an android so unless this "box of scraps"(which they some how manage to pull out of nowhere or somehow purchased in hell of all places ) comes with a human body that is identical to that of 17. or some of 17's DNA with a cloning machine attached. There is no way in hell they could have made the 17 copy.
No way in hell? Obviously they couldn't have made a cyborg, but it's much more likely the Hell 17 was a complete machine, built to look like and fuse with the original. Doesn't explain WHERE they got the parts from, but at least this is slightly more plausible.
Another thing, and correct me if I'm wrong. But wasn't it stated that the reason the portal to Hell opened was due to Android 17 and Hell Fighter 17 were able to synch up because they were perfectly identical, but wouldn't that mean that Dr. Gero had a sample of 17's DNA that lasted after all these years and he and Baby somehow used that several decade old sample to make a machine mutant? Also, if Hell Fighter 17 is machine mutant Android 17 is a cyborg, than how are they perfectly identical?
Maybe,Maybe not since Piccole and Dende where able to do it and they are not perfectly identical.Frankly GT can't even keep their exposition straight.
First off, Piccolo fused with Nail, not Dende. And second, that was using an ancient namekian fusion technique, not just synchronizing because they're identical.
No one was taking about that! We're taking about how piccolo and Dende were able to synchronize their energy to open up hell in GT. I suggest you watch it just to understand what we're talking about.
How did the creation of Hell 17 go completely unnoticed by King Yemma and all the guys running hell including all of the kai?
Why does hell look completely different from all the other times we seen it?
Why didn't Dr.Gero or Dr.Myu try to make a hell 18 as well. that would only double their attack power and they would have no problem beating Goku even at SSJ4. Did they ran out of parts?
How the hell did Dr.Gero or Dr.Myu know how to open the gates of hell. They're robotic scientist you would that kind of information would fall out of the realm of science and into black magic.
If it was that easy to break out of hell that even Piccolo and Dende could do it. why didn't no one else tried it. you think if it was that easy someone would have done it earlier.
Why didn't everyone use the Blutz Wave Generator, shouldn't Bulma have given everyone a chance after seeing what it did to Vegeta? I don't get why she'd use it on Shenron when she could've covertly enhanced everyone with steroid waves.
At the very least she could have used it to restore Goku's and Vegeta's energies for another fusion. But no.
It was damaged beyond immediate repair after its first use.
No it wasn't, Bulma was even able to fire a few shots at Omega before he destroyed it in episode 60. so she could have easily done it.
Just what happened to Gohan's Mystic power-up when GT rolled around? Did he lose it when he got pulled out of Buu? It just faded away? He was just damn uninterested in fighting anymore when he grew up?
The writers forgot. Long Pause. That's the real reason.
The third one, methinks. He always was the more intellectual one in that family. Besides, he's married to Videl now, right? Anyway, GT wasn't written by Toriyama, so we can probably just drop this one in Canon Discontinuity. They seemed more interested in turning Goku into a kid and inventing SSJ4 then expanding on Gohan's abilities.
Or remembering that he couldn't turn Super Saiyan. (The old Kai told him to try and do 'that super-saiyain thing'. He turned Mystic, with a different hair style to normal, that of his SSJ2 form, but not blonde.)
The unfortunate real world answer is that its both a plot hole and a willing part of the script writers to make Goku the hero of GT. However, to attempt to explain this in-universe it relies on working out what exactly the Mystic Form actually is. If its a power up similar to when Guru unlocked his Hidden Potential, then there is a simple answer because it happens to be rooted in previous canon. During Dragon Ball Z its noted that his Super Saiyan 2 form had considerably weakened because he was no longer training; its not that he lost the Mystic Form, he was always using it throughout GT - its just weakened to the point where Goku and Vegeta have surpassed him. If on the other hand its a Transformation similar to Super Saiyan or the Kaioken then it once again comes back to Gohan's lack of training. Like his weakened Super Saiyan 2 form, it may now be impossible for him to transform given the massive energies required - it does after all surpass Super Saiyan 3.
That explanation doesn't fly for a number of reasons. while it's true In the movies Wrath of the Dragon, Battle of Gods, and the Budokai games, the form is treated like a transformation, as Gohan accesses the form by powering up. there is NO massive energies requirement! old kai simple said power up like for the Super Saiyan transformation which clearly mean it doesn't require anymore energy that Super saiyan and he can still did that in GT. Also yes it's true that the reason why gohan SSJ4 was weaken in the Buu saga was because of his lack of training. HOWEVER that only because SSJ amplify base form so weak base form = weak transformation. mystic is different it allow gohan to directly tap into his full potential regardless base form.
There's also the WMG (which, when you think about it, makes sense) that Pan accidentally took it. She's easily at the power level of Goku when he fought Androids 19 and 20 (proven by her easily beating Android 20). No matter how much training she did, and how many times she almost died, there's nothing that could have logically elevated her to that level. Mind you, that's a power level stronger than Freeza. From a 10 to 12 (about 2 years had passed by that point, so if she was 10 at the start, she would be 12 by then) year old girl.
That's not unnatural. Goten and Trunks' base power at the end of Z was more or less at Frieza's level. Though from what we've seen in Z, that much increase really comes from mastering the Super Saiyan form, which apart from making it ultra powerful and efficient, seems to boost the base form's power proportionately as well, as Goku demonstrates in the afterlife. Before any of them made Super Saiyan as efficient as their normal state, they absolutely couldn't get to Frieza's level and beyond without going Super Saiyan.
Here is the thing about that when someone inherit traits from there parents in this case mystic energy normally the parent would NOT lose their own.Besides Pan is nowhere near as strong as her father was at the end of z.
She's also grew up in peacetime and isn't fully grown. Before receiving the Mystic power-up, Gohan was already a veteran of the Saiyan Invasion, the war on Namek, the Cell Games, been through the grueling experience of the Hyperbolic Time Chamber, 17 years old, and put on death's door by Majin Buu. The zenki boosts and Level Grinding he's been through, not to mention being almost an adult, easily explain him outclassing GT Pan.
Except that doesn't explain what happen to Gohan's mystic form. Saying that Pan took it would be like saying if son has your eyes you will lose your eyes. Also mystic form is suppose to unlock a person true power regardless of the strength of their base form. so unless she already at her maximum strength (and that's the strongest she'll ever get!)she clearly doesn't have it.
The last episode. Ok, so Shenron can't grant any more wishes, so why not go Namek and take one wish from Porunga to restore everyone killed by the Shadow Dragons? What is even the need for the Deal with the Devil that Goku makes at the end?
Porunga can't revive large scores of people. He can only bring back one person at a time.
No in the Buu saga they WERE able to bring back everyone to life with Porunga. the elder said he remodel him remember?So yeah that's no excuse.
The Shadow Dragons were created by the selfish wishes made by our heroes over the years, specifically they are supposed to go 100 Years between uses to allow the evil energy to vanish. Porunga is either supposed to be on a 300 year cycle (because three wishes), a 50 cycle (because apparently years on Old Namek are 6 months long and it's never explained if New Namek changed that detail)or possibly some odd combination it's not like Dragon Balls exactly make sense. Porunga is however clearly Shenron's superior so I have a very good reason why our heroes might not want to overload Porunga.
If overusing the Dragon Balls had such devastating effects, why was this not mentioned in any of the the literature? Or by Kami/Mr Popo/Piccolo/The Grand Elder/Moori/Dende? Why is it that only Old Kaio-shin mentions the negative effects of over-using the Dragon Balls. And if over-using them had such devastating effects, why did they reconstitute every year? Why not every hundred years?
For the first 3 questions, because the writers hadn't thought of it yet and out of everybody in the series only Old Kai could have even known about it, and he finds no reason to bring it up until it happens. For the last, because Kami and Dende would have increased the duration to 100 years instead of a year if they knew about that little drawback, and they didn't, therefore they saw no reason to.
Old Kai saw no reason to bring it up? you mean beside preventing the destruction earth dragonballs, the release of the evil dragons which cause a great deal of damage to the earth and it's people and had powers that made Majin Buu look like a chump which took everything z fighters had to stop them. as well as covering the earth in negative energy. you mean the old kai didn't see the prevention of all this chaos and destruction as reason enough to tell them? Also you mean to tell me that the namekians race as a whole all had literally no idea, no ancient literature or prophecy explaining this,not one words of advice passed down from the ancient elders giving them all a heads up. They had not one clue of the negative effects of their own magic they have invented? Wow, That's a lot to believe.
Some of the GT endings (example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INND4rkd8Qw) include a sequence in which most of the good guys walk or fly past the screen. Quick question, what the hell is BABY doing there?! He's just evil, he doesn't redeem himself, he has no reason to be there. I don't get it.
That specific scene seems to be a homage of the illustration in the old DB volumes. They included both heroes and villains together. Speaking of GT endings, the second one is about couples: Goku and Chichi, Vegeta and Bulma, Gohan and Videl, Krillin and Number 18 and... Goten and Trunks? Are they appealing to the fangirls there or what?
No, they were showing scenes of character pairs doing everyday stuff. The only other characters who would fit with Goten or Trunks would be Pan or Goten's Satellite Love Interest, they were better just with each other.+
That's the most likely truth. Still, it's funny they're the only pair who isn't a couple.
They're a couple in the same way Scrubs' John Dorian and Christopher Turk are.
Indeed, it's just guy love... between two guys.
Another GT problem. How could the Black Star balls have been made before Kami separated from Piccolo? Kami separated from Piccolo so that he could become the resident god. Don't you need to be the resident Kami to make the Dragon Balls in the first place? When could he have possibly made the black star balls?
IIRC, the Black Star balls were Kami's Dragon Balls, beta version, with one giant drawback. Of course, how one could figure out that drawback without a planet (i.e. Earth) or three going "Boom"... let's just not examine this too closely.
And if that was the case, how did Kami bring the dragonballs back to the lookout if they were scattered all over the universe after each wish?
If I remember correctly, Pilaf said they were made before the split. Besides, if they were solo Kami's, then the balls would be inert, since by that time, Kami has long since fused with Piccolo.
Also, Pilaf's an idiot.
You don't need to be Kami to make the balls, you just need to be from the Dragon Clan. Guru wasn't Kami of anything, if you recall. That explains why the Black Star balls were active after Kami had fused with Piccolo, because that was his original state when he created the balls
The Black Star balls were made by the Nameless Namek; they became inert when he split into Kami and King Piccolo. Remember Piccolo Jr ceased to exist after the Cell saga from a biological point of view - as far as the balls are concerned he is the original creator. It's clearly said in the episode they appear. Incidentally it actually makes perfect sense from a real world perspective; the Nameless Namek was as strong as Android 17 AKA a thousand times stronger than Guru or Kami. Makes sense his Dragon Balls would be stronger in every single way.
The Black Star Balls are too nonsensical to think about them. For instance, how come they were never detected after the Nameless Namek was reborn in the middle of Cell Saga? The original Dragon Balls have been collected at least thrice after that (after Cell's death, after Majin Vegeta's killing spree, and at the end of the Buu saga) and they never found out about the Black Balls via the radar. Also, how could Red Shenlong affect Goku's body (and power) since he's clearly far far stronger than the creator? Those are pretty big Plot Holes.
If Piccolo had created those Dragonballs before the split, then how come waaaay back in DB, King Piccolo didn't even know what a Dragonball was until he was informed of their powers by Pilaf?
If guru could make dragonballs without planets having to go boom when they grant wishes, and the knowledge was passed on to Kami when he was in Namek, how did he end up creating Dragonballs with such bizarre properties.
Even if pilaf knew about the black star dragon balls how did he knew that piccolo and kami refused 22 years ago?
Why wasn't piccolo at the lookout when pilaf attacked it? when we last left him in dbz piccole lived at the lookout but when GT got started he was no where to be seen. Also why didn't mr.popo or dende try to help goku fight off pilaf and get back the black star dragon balls.
How was it that Pilaf,Shu,and Mai was able to hold Goku off long enough to summon Black Star Shenlong? I know Goku was tired after fighting ubb.but he and uub was able to heavily damage the lookout while in The Hyperbolic Time Chamber IN BASE FORM Without the need to punch dimensional holes through it like gotenk and majin buu,Yet couldn't beat pilaf and his mooks in under 30 seconds? Mr.popo alone could have handle them. as meantion before Why Mr.popo and Dende didn't try to get back the Black Star Dragonballs while Goku was fighting them? they just stood there!
How is it that Android 18, after lecturing Super 17 on his "cowardice" for allowing mad doctors to decide his actions, witnessing his clear look of turmoil over it, and seeing him finally snap and kill Dr. Myu after the latter runs his mouth, never actually thinks about trying to convince her brother to stand down? We could've seen a Heel-Face Turn which would produce a very valuable ally that could've come in handy for the final arc so that Goku didn't have to do 90% of everything. (Wait, maybe I just answered my own question�)
That you did. Dragon Ball GT was designed to make Goku the hero and everyone else seem like losers. At the end of Z Gohan and Gotenks were the strongest fighters in existence. Come GT and instead of expanding their characters, the writers pull Super Saiyan 4 out of their ass which just happens to make everything and everyone before it look redundant. Even after other Super Saiyan 4's appeared he was still responsible for the killing blow against the most powerful enemy in history. And what was the final shot of the series? Goku the only Z Fighter alive. Basically the writers sought out anyone or anything as strong as Goku and ground it under their heels.
Wait... Wouldn't SSJ3 Goku be just as strong as, if not stronger than, SSJ3 Gotenks? Not just that, but Vegito was far outclassing Super Buu after it absorbed Gohan (who recently had his full potential unlocked), even before turning into a Super Saiyan. Plus, even without the Potara, Goku and Vegeta could still fuse into Gogeta via Fusion Dance, if Goku could convince Vegeta to...
SSJ Gotenks was roughly even/superior to SSJ3 Goku. Goku was scared to fight Super Buu, and SSJ3 Gotenks dominated him. SSJ3 Goku is nowhere near SSJ3 Gotenks. Base Vegetto beating Super Buu w/Gohan is filler, in the manga he turns Super Saiyan immediately.
I agree with the previous poster - Gohan and Gotenks were the strongest fighters at the end of Z. There is absolutely no evidence outside of the movies that Vegeta knew and/or could perform the fusion dance reliably before GT which takes Gogeta out of the equation, the Potara earrings were destroyed meaning that Vegetto was for all intents and purposes dead and Gohan, already as powerful as Super Buu, still had both his Full Power and Super Saiyan 2 transformations in reserve. Fact is, Goku got lucky against Kid Buu. If it wasn't for the Spirit Bomb and his health boost from Porunga Goku would have been annihilated.
Wasn't it stated that the Fusion Earrings lead to a stronger form than Fusion Dance did? So even if Gotenks reached SSJ3, wouldn't Vegito still be classified as the strongest being in (canonical) DB lore?
Mystic Gohan doesn't have SSJ or SSJ2 in reserve, Elder Kaioshin specifically told him to try to turn SSJ - this was what produced Mystic. Evidently, "Mystic" is his full potential brought out without clunky, energy draining transformations. And Goku's fear of Super Buu isn't the only piece of evidence; he was unsure if he could have defeated Fat Buu himself, but figured (not 100% reliable but it's the best indicator we have) that SSJ Gotenks would win the day with ease. And since we never see SSJ Gotenks fight Fat Buu, we can't really oppose Goku's word on it.
The last part of our Gainax Ending. Goku has no tail if you observe. Only God knows why. Whether he's even alive or dead is also a big mystery.
Thinking about it now, why couldn't they use Earth's normal Dragon Balls to wish back the Black Star Dragon Balls? It would've made a lot more sense to try to attempt to find the regular balls scattered across the planet before time ran out than it would've to build a ship and travel in space to who knows where to find the other set. Even if they couldn't wish the balls back, they could've at least asked for some form of advanced teleportation that'd let them easily arrive at the places with the balls, especially since Bulma somehow designed a radar that was able to detect the balls throughout space. Granted, we all know what happened the first time they actually tried to use the things in the entire series (if I'm not mistaken; Didn't they use new Namek's Dragon Balls to wish Earth back after Baby Vegeta used the Black Star Dragon Balls again? Soon after Baby was defeated, they had to evacuate Earth and I doubt they took the regular Dragon Balls with them), but the main characters couldn't have possibly known that at the time.
Also, in regards to the Black Star Dragon Balls being used again, why didn't the time needed to gather them again reset?
At least in the dub, it did. The Baby thing lasted far longer than it seemed.
The Shadow Dragon Saga again. While fighting against Naturon Shenron, Goku has trouble pushing a building in base form. And he's supporting the entire weight of it by pressing against window glass, so yeah, it must be Made Of Unobtanium, if not at least very strong glass. Then he has to go to Super Saiyan 4 just to lift it, which he and Piccolo or anyone else could have done waaaaaaayyyy back in DBZ's Saiyan Saga. Ahem, what did I just see?
Why did Goku age back to adulthood when in SSJ4 form? Was it just Rule of Cool, or did it have an in-universe justification?
If I recall correctly, it was because his Super Saiyan 4 form was stronger than the Red Shenron. That may just have been Fanon, though.
Which is itself a pretty bland Handwave. There's no way for the Nameless Namek to be stronger than Goku SSJ3, or else Piccolo should have been able to fight with Fat Buu. I guess it's another Plot Hole for Dragon Ball GT.
Not really. Shenron can't affect anyone who's stronger than its creator, but was it ever stated that the Black Star Shenron had the same limitation? It could be that, as an unofficial (non-Kami/Guru/Planetary Sponsor) dragon with huge drawbacks, it could affect anyone who wasn't stronger than itself. That's starting to get close to Fan Wank, however, and is completely invalid if it was stated to have the same limitation and completely moot if it was a different reason.
I always thought that Goku's SSJ4 form was so strong, it could resist the Dragon Ball's powers.
Ass Pull people, that's the truth. They made Goku a kid because they thought DBZ was too much of serious fighting and they wanted to go back to the DB days. Then they realized it was a very bad idea, as even the audience began losing respect for Goku like Pan does, so they tried to go back to the DBZ ways. They didn't really think of any other way except to throw in Instant Age Settings and Instant Tailor for SSJ4.
While Gohan's advice to Goku to 'just grow up like any other child' is sound, what's to stop them from collecting the regular Dragonballs to wish Goku back to adulthood again?
Or if a wish from the Black Star Dragonballs overrides the Red Star Dragonballs somehow, what was stopping Chi Chi from wishing herself younger? after all they did first meet as small children (and indeed proposed to each other which Chi Chi took very seriously well into her teens) and it's not as if Chi Chi still has any dependants to care for. Even if you argue that Chi Chi would be Squicked by the thought of being a little girl once again, why she didn't revert to her teens when Goku hit 16 for example is anyone's guess. As things stand Goku apparently accepted being the carer of an old lady (unless he ran off again of course) and Chi Chi apparently just accepted her death by old age despite having the potential access to seven magic balls that could restore her youth.
Well, Chi-Chi's been established as a woman who wanted a regular family, that likely includes husband she could grow old, and eventually die of old age with. The fact that he's gone and gotten himself turned into a kid again is frankly, and rightfully so, very stupid; and the idea that she has to cater to his whims, including using the Dragonballs to turn herself into a child again is, again rightfully so, very selfish. Goku may have been fine with the prospect of having to relive his childhood and adult years (with the retained memories of his first time growing up), but she wasn't. Also, think of Gohan and Goten. Can you imagine how they'd have to explain it to their superiors? To...anyone?
Gohan: Yeah, I know it's weird, but these two kids who are clearly young enough to be my son and daughter are really my mom and dad. N-no, I don't have legal papers on them, nor am I their legal guardians because I'm their son! H-hey! Why are you reaching for that phone? I-I'm telling you the truth, these two kids are actually my parents! C'mon, they'll vouch for me!
Capsule Corps. News Anchor: A local man named Gohan has been taken in custody for allegedly kidnapping and brainwashing two innocent children into thinking that he's their son, and that they were once fully grown adults who shrunk themselves thanks to a wish they made to...eh...a dragon that came out of seven <fingerquotes>dragonballs<fingerquotes>. He's now in an asylum pending review, while the children are in the care of a children psychiatric ward.
and then later he could just
Gohan: *transforms into Super Saiyan 2 and bitchslaps the wall to pieces*
Vegeta: *Super Saiyan* will you people PLEASE stop doubting anything involving Kakarot's family and friends? I mean, the world has blown up about 8 times in my lifetime, hell, I almost did it once myself about 20 years ago! Kakarrot has a monkey tail and can do this little transformation deal, too, actually being able to go about 5 levels of upgrade HIGHER than me, and you've all actually SEEN this dragon at least twice! I think we're WELL past the point of "believe anything out of that family's mouths"!!!!!!
Yamcha: Actually, the dragon has been summoned more than twice by now. I'd wager a few dozen times at least, so...yeah, there's no excuse to not knowing about the dragonballs.
Krillin: Seriously. I mean, do you lot have a poor memory span? You've seen us fight in tournaments, so it should come to no surprise to you that we can fly and shoot ki beams...yet you act like you're having cardiac arrest whenever we so much as walk up to you. Nevermind the fact that we inhabit this world with dog and cat people. Hell, the king himself is a freaking dog!
Couldn't they have just used the black star balls to wish Goku to age at the rate of a year per minute for the next 30-40 minutes?
Why black? The regular ones would have been ok.
Why didn't Piccolo decide to destroy the Red Star Dragonballs instead of sacrificing Himself? Or he could have just summoned Red Shenron and killed him for good as he had done back in DB?
Vegeta mentions that "A true Sayain's hair never changes" back in Z, yet he grows a mustache. And his hair has become significantly shorter.
He may have been talking about hair styles. If that was true, then it seems improbable that some Sayains have facial hair (like King Vegeta) while most everyone else doesn't.
Its pretty obvious Vegeta is talking about his head not his face. As to why we see so few Saiyan's with beards could be explained by the fact that only middle aged men can grow them - King Vegeta, Vegeta Jr and Nappa were all of advancing years when we first see their facial hair.
Speaking of Nappa I could have sworn he had short black almost Recoom style hair in some of the flashbacks.
And what about his hair?
He cut it. Until he transforms (something that we're told hadn't happened for a thousand years prior to the start of the series) it remains the same. I imagine culturally a race who's hair remains static they would probably view hair cuts as a huge deal and none is made of Vegeta's but that could be an oversight.
After fusing with Buu, Uub now has all the powers of Majin Buu, so why can't he heal Goku (who's been blinded by Ice Shenron) if he can at least heal himself? He doesn't even have to restore his energy, just get his eyes back up and functioning.
Because Syn Shenron is right there. Uub would have to run into the heat of the fight, spend a few seconds healing Goku while praying to God that Syn Shenron didn't kill him then and there. It was too risky.
Speaking of which you wonder why Uub can't even heal himself, nor has the unlimited stamina + Infinite regeneration capabilities of Kid Buu. Considering that he could reverse the effect of his candy spells, this is seriously a major question mark.
If SSJ4 allowed Goku to go back into adult form, why didn't he just stay in his adult form. Better yet, why didn't the power of SSJ4 permanently revert him to an adult?
They needed Goku to be a kid for the plot. Don't question it, GT is stupid.
Gainax Ending: The ending, the biggest Headscratcher of 'em all not including the beginning. In retrospect, it's so sudden and bizarre that it's nothing short of a Mind Screw. What happened to Goku in the last 2 episodes? He's clearly dead from that huge energy ball, then suddenly he's alive again somehow able to talk to everybody on earth, then when he's charging the spirit bomb he cannot be killed by Omega at all, despite direct hits (Wasn't that the spirit bomb's weakest point?). We're not even sure if he's dead or Back from the Dead because there's not even a halo to give us any idea (How that is even possible under the circumstances is itself a mystery). Then after the bomb's thrown, he's dead again, apparently brought back to life, then suddenly he just leaves without even saying goodbye. Vegeta knows something's up, then suddenly we see his clothes left on the ground. But in DBZ when they die, they die with their clothes (In fact, that shot is out of sequence and is shown after the end of the next couple of events). But then he's off to visit Roshi and Piccolo, who both also know something's changed about him, but a mere "Are you...?" is not very helpful. When they take their eyes off him for a second, there's suddenly no one there. Then the Dragonballs merge into Goku, then he disappears. What the hell happened in the last 2 episodes? Where does he go? Why did he have to go? Was there no other alternative? What happened to him?
He doesn't return for 100 years, and if you leave aside what you saw in A Hero's legacy, it's not clear if he's alive or dead. Theories include Ascended to a Higher Plane of Existence or that Goku became Shenron himself. And is he isn't even remotely bothered by the fact that almost everyone he knew is dead.
A Hero's legacy was made earlier just after the Baby Saga and they intended Goku to be clearly dead and be the Spirit Advisor to Goku Jr. At that time, no had any idea how GT was going to end or just how they were going to get there, they hoped to stop with Baby Saga. But Executive Meddling (which is why GT even existed) wanted to rush two more sagas in production because producers wanted the series to coincide with the release (and marketing) of Dragon Ball: Final Bout for the Playstation. Viewer ratings began to go into landslide around the Shadow Dragon Saga so they abruptly Cut Short the series and rushed out a hastily written ending out the door. Yes. Seriously.
While noting all the above, one thing stands out. While Goku's charging the spirit bomb, how did Omega's blasts not hurt him at all? As far as we know even a resurrected person can clearly take massive damage.
Seriously, what happened to the setting!? Back in DBZ, space travel was a big deal, and so was the problem of finding a spaceship. Many years passed since then, fine... but in GT, all of a sudden, Earth is part of a Star Wars-esque Galaxy where space travel is common place, anyone barely reacts at seeing aliens on their planet, and the planets themselves are treated like cities. That's pretty distant from Freeza's Planet Trade Organization...
It is inconsistent yes; however there are plenty of perfectly valid justifications. It hasn't just been years it's been decades since the journey to Namek and Dr Briefs was smart enough to have invented at least two of them in a relatively short space of time (Goku's, the one Vegeta trained in and possibly the one that replaced the ship Vegeta blew up.) Naturally Bulma who is smart enough to invent a Time Machine, a Shrink Watch, the Dragon Radar, the Super Saiyaman Watch etc could have very easily adapted her father's work to create a ship vastly superior to anything that came before. As for the apparent Star Wars like universe teeming with life you yourself unwittedly gave the answer - the end of Frieza's Empire. This would have realistically brought a power vacuum among the aligned worlds and eventually given arise to new interstellar powers and new opportunities including space flight. Also don't forget that planets such as the Machine Empire had enemies on it that were (according to Goku) stronger than Buu so naturally Frieza would have left well alone and as such would have been free to produce common place space flight and advanced technology completely independently. To put it in a real world context imagine the sheer amount of trouble that happened in the wake of the Roman Empire collapsing which not only included the Dark Ages but also allowed over powers and nations to arise that wouldn't have existed otherwise. Incidentally the Earth of the Dragonball Universe features anthropomorphic animals and has hosted several alien invasions including Piccolo and Vegeta so it is probably a little jaded in its reactions to seeing aliens by now.
As often happens in Dragon Ball in general, Dragon Ball GT in particular power levels are so hard to scale that as much as we talk about a power vacuum we don't have a real reason to believe there would be one sans Frieza or even that his empire would have collapsed. The average Frieza soldier (which is assumed to be a decent fighter) couldn't take Master Roshi in a fight. It doesn't seem unlikely that Frieza had other soldiers on par with Vegeta who if we believe Raditz sent out for Kakkarot because he thought four Saiyans vs a planet would be easier than three not because he didn't think the three of them could handle it. To the original question just chalk it up to DB in general and DBGT in particular having no idea what it's talking about. Between Piccolo, Raditz and Cell the fact that they were shocked by anything by Buu makes less sense than the fact that the planet that apparently houses 100% of the bad ass in the universe is finally getting some street cred.
If the universe was indeed full of planets with fighters capable of challenging Super Saiyans and rivaling Majin Buu that were somehow not touched by Frieza, then the afterlife / Hell should have had a proportional amount of such powerful fighters who passed on across history, who would have only become stronger with all the years of training after death. Yet when Goku was in the afterlife, there was only one Pikkon (who was weaker than SSJ 2) and by Buu saga, there was no one who could hold a candle against Kid Buu. Does it even make sense to consider that in a few decades after Frieza's defeat, suddenly every other planet managed to take 10,000 levels in badass in such a short time?
What makes this worst is when you see gt timeline and according it Rildo has been around for about 50 years.Which raises a new plot hole if Rildo and DR.myuu been around so long why didn't dr.myuu just send Rildo and the sigma team to hunt down and kill all the sayains back before planet vegeta got destroyed?
How was Baby able to create Dr. Myuu and the rest of the machine mutants?
Myuu created Baby, not the other way around.
Actually no, it was later revealed it was indeed Baby that created Myuu and the machine mutants (all while being a fetus mind you). Myuu was actually created by Baby 50 years ago to further Baby's growth, and Baby program Myuu to believe he created Baby when it was really the other way around. Also apparently Baby put a Black star dragonball in Myuu's head 50 year ago even though they were scattered recently. I'm not even kidding GT just makes that little sense.
Why does Android 17 look exactly the same as he did in Z? 18 showed signs of aging, so why didn't he?
She had to deal with the stress of raising a child. He did not.
She didn't age, she cut her hair started to dress differently.
The Super Saiyan Three transformation was so powerful, it could only be used for about five minutes, due to the massive strain on the user's body. How is it Super Saiyan Four doesn't have these limitations? It is far more powerful, but Goku has no problem staying in it for long periods of time. He even stayed in the form after being knocked out by Baby.
Speaking of which that is also a bit inconsistent. On later occasions he got knocked out and turned to normal. In one case he was hit by one of his blasts and turned back into his child form, despite the fact that SS 4 had withstood a full force Galic Gun from Baby. Consistency anyone?
One thing that's strange is the fact the Goten and Trunks never try fusing (at all! not even when they were getting beaten). They know for fact that they are way stronger combine than they are separate so why not use it. where they just afraid of out-staging Goku?
Because there's no point. The two had been out of training for a long while and thus weaker, and even without that would have still been too weak to even contribute against the current threat even while fused. This was specifically brought up. By the time he got SS 4 Goku was pretty much the only character powerful enough to be relevant anymore. That, and the boys had been out of practice with fusing, they would have been even worse off if they screwed the fusion up.
You can't expect anyone to believe that fighting omega syn and super 17 as two ssj 1 is better than fighting as a fused ssj3. even if he lost their odds of winning would have been better. and how would they be screwed if they messed up? Goku and Vegeta messed up their fusion against Omega and nothing happen. count that as another plot hole messing up a fusion dance apparently has no repercussion in GT.
No, it's completely pointless for Trunks and Goten to fight at all is my point. Omega Shenron is so unbelievably above them that it wouldn't matter if it was 2 SS J1s Vs. Omega or a fused SSJ 3 Vs. Omega, Omega could have killed them with a finger poke regardless. Hell, the same is true against Great Ape Baby. The two even trying to fight Omega at all amounted to little more than a delaying tactic, so it makes more sense for them to stay split up and thus have two targets for the enemy to go after. Also, where do you get the idea that there's no repercussions to messing up the fusion dance? The only people that even try it are Goku and Vegeta, and they never screw up the fusion at any point, just the second time Goku loses his power at the last second and thus prevents the fusion from being able to work at all.
Also raising the question how the hell can vegeta do fusion dance with goku perfectly on his first try seeing how he have never done the dance in canon and even when you count fusion reborn it still has been over 15 years since he done it that one time and yet was able to pull it off flawlessly in spite of never practicing it in over 15 years. and yet Goten and trunks can't apparently. And they are other times when fusion could have come in handy like during the fight with super 17. doing the fusion dance would have been better idea than charging at him blindly(which resulted in them getting one shoted by super 17). you can't use the whole super 17 is too power for their strongest form nosense since super 17 had a hard fighting goku was a ssj 1 and I Think SSJ 3 Gotenk would about as strong as ssj1 kid Goku.
why did baby wait for Goku,Pan and Trunks to return with the blackstar dragon balls before putting his plans into motion.He could have easily used the earth dragon balls to wish for his planet plus immorality or to restore the tuffles.
Another GT plot hole. They didn't think it through, and just wanted the plot to start with the trio coming.
It kills two Saiyans with one Ki blast. He gets the Black Star Dragonballs to make his wish and at the same time ensures that the heroes can't use those Dragonballs against him.
His still could have grab the earth dragon balls while goku was away and just used them later, he could have had 3 wishes.It's makes no sense why he would just choose 1.
What were Uub and all the other fighters doing for the entirety of the Shadow Dragon saga until it was time for them to supply energy to Goku against Syn Shenron?
They acknowledged that Goku wanted to do this himself. Pan being the annoying thing she is didn't care.
If the villains on many planets in GT were as strong as Buu, how the hell did Frieza even establish his empire in DBZ when they were around?
They had to make the enemies stronger or Goku could just plow through them effortlessly. I admit though, it is stupid.
And in addition to the above, if the universe was indeed full of planets with fighters capable of challenging Super Saiyans and rivaling Majin Buu all along that were somehow not touched by Frieza, then how come there was nobody in the afterlife who could come even close to Kid Buu? While we know that the afterlife has fighters capable of challenging Frieza, that could also be because of non-stop training for like...2000 years (as a DBZ episode recounts much to Goku's shock). Surely you expect that some of these powerful fighters near SSJ 2 or Buu's level ought to be there. But no. I mean in the 20 years since Buu saga, did every other planet suddenly find a way to make everyone as strong as Buu?
How is it that Parapara Brothers, Baby, the Luud Cult,and Dr. Myuu, all extraterrestrials, know about the black star dragon balls? When None of the Z-fighters knows about them nor does anyone on earth.
How does Baby even say he created Dr. Myuu with a dragonball in his head?
How did Ledgic realize Goku was a Saiyan simply by deflecting his Kamehameha. 1.)The Kamehameha is not a Saiyan move, 2.)Goku doesn't have a tail(Which they are suppose to have), and 3.)THE SAIYAN RACE WAS SUPPOSELY WIPE OUT OVER 40 FREAKIN YEARS AGO. So what makes him think this child is a Saiyan?
That's not really unbelievable in Dragonball. We know that Ki for a lack of a better term has a flavor or scent if you will. Enough that Dragon Ball Z has two clear examples of people either mistaking a flavor (nobody could figure what was going on with Cell because he tasted like Goku/Vegeta/Frieza/Piccolo all mixed up together and after Kami and Piccolo fuse Goku immediately identifies them as Kamiccolo) so it's not crazy at all that Saiyans taste like Saiyans. It's also plausible that while we can't tell the difference between the races because of the art style that perhaps Saiyans do have distinct enough features to be told apart from humans by anybody who cares to look.
So how does Ledgic know exactly what saiyan aura or ki taste, look, or smell like? no one on the planet knew what a saiyan was except Ledgic and he didn't even know what a super saiyan is.
General Rildo is shown to be able to use the metal covering the entire surface of Planet M-2 to reconstruct a new body after his current one has been destroyed, yet he dies after a blast from Goku, Pan, and Trunks not even at full power and in base form. Even though there's still metal all over the planet, he's just dies. What the hell I thought he was stronger than Majin Buu!
After fighting Goku for numerous episodes as a Great Ape, Baby just leaves Vegeta's body, gets on a ship, tries to make an escape, and then gets blasted into the sun by Goku. The thing about that is not only is it anti-climatic, it also subverts what Baby as a character was doing up to the point. Instead of running away he would have instead realized Goku was stronger than his current host and through some underhanded means try to acquire his body as he had with Goten, Gohan, and Vegeta. And even if he knew that wouldn't work, his hatred for the Saiyans was too great for him to just leave. Really his character would of at least tried to blow himself up or something.
How is it that Baby vegeta and regular vegeta were able to transform when they are exposed to Blutz Wave when Vegeta don't have tails. This is necessary for a transformation at least according to Dragon ball, and Dragon ball Z. So what was the point of even pulling out Goku's tail when Saiyains can apparently transform to great apes and SSJ4 even without them.
They really did not want to give Vegeta any attention. Even Gogeta SSJ4 was useless.
Nobody knew that raw Blutz waves could turn Saiyans into Great Apes until AFTER they had already pulled Goku's tail out.
If the Blutz waves could regrow Vegeta's tail in Baby saga requiring Goku to cut it off to stop the transformed Baby-Vegeta, then how come in the Shadow dragon saga, Vegeta loses his tail after dropping out of SSJ 4?
How could Eis Shenron be Nuova Shenron twin brother when the wishes the created the two of them happened no where near the same time. Eis Shenron was create when a wish was used to erase the memories of the whole Buu fiasco and Nuova Shenron was created when created when King Piccolo wished for his youth back. those wishes were made over two decades apart so how can they be twin?!.
It also bugs as to how some shadow dragons can be so much stronger while the wishes made with the Dragonballs would have required far less positive energy, such as Piccolo in DB wishing back his youth. Even if one wished the earth back, the wish ought to have no more energy than what it took to destroy it, and the shadow dragon formed from the equivalent negative energy should be strong enough to destroy earth, say at Cell's level at max, but not so strong as to overpower a Super Saiyan 4. Or is it possible that trying to reverse natural laws requires so much more energy?
The ending of GT bugs me. Why would a guy leave his son and wife behind? He didn't know where the dragon was taking him. Also, isn't a bit cruel for chichi to spend the rest of her life alone and manless? Even a woman has needs.
A better question would be "why the hell Goku went with shenron in the first place?" seriously there was no reason given to why he did that. he could have stayed with his family and friends.
Goku left to become the guardian of the Dragonballs and ensure they were never misused again. This is made pretty explicit in the movie.
And why can he not do that sitting in his own house with the Dragonballs safe inside him? Why should he disappear?
During the fight with Mutchy Goku was struggled pull a sword out of a wall! In DBZ Goku was able to lift 40ton in base form! This doesn't make sense.
Why is Dr.Myuu even in hell? Machines shouldn't have souls. That's the reason why android 16 couldn't brought back. And yet Dr.Myuu is a machine and he is in hell. Same goes for android 19 he is also just a machine.
A GT Plot Hole. The villains in HFIL shouldn't have bodies at all.
No they did in DBZ.
So if all machines can go to afterlife why isn't Baby in hell?
Because it wasn't convienent to the plot. Or the writers forgot.
Who knows. Baby probably is in Hell, we just didn't see him there and he didn't escape with the others. Dr. Myuu also probably wouldn't have allowed Baby to escape Hell if he could avoid it, just to spite his killer. Or maybe Baby did in fact leave but he was smart enough not to try and tangle with the Z fighters again. That, and he would have also been the only dead villain that would have posed a real threat, so the writers kept him out just so we wouldn't have to go through the Baby saga twice.
The more likely reason is what was mention above "Because it wasn't convienent to the plot. Or the writers just forgot." If Baby was in hell why didn't he help Cell and frieza kill Goku? or at least try to take over Goku's body while he was in hell? If he was out of hell why didn't try to rebuilt his empire and take revenge one more time this is the prefect time. I mean fate gives Baby a second chance at life and revenge and he just turns it down? A second change to restore and avenge the tuffles and destroyed the saiyans and he just not interested? it's not like Dr.Myuu can really stop Baby from escaping hell after all it was Baby the created Dr.Myuu what can he do?
How are Zoonama's earthquakes even able to slow down or even affect Goku, Trunks, and Pan? Can't they fly?
If they figured that out then there would be no plot.
Why does Goku, Trunks, and Pan even play long with Zoonama's demands can't they just beat him up. It's not like he has hostages or anything.
Why did none of the Z-fighters even think of following Zoonama's ki signature back to his lair?
If Zoonama's whiskers can only predict earthquakes and not make them. then how is that these earthquakes happen at such convenient time for him. You mean to tell me an earthquake just so happens to go off whenever he comes to the villages. what are the odds of that? or the fact that these earthquake happens to go off days apart from one another. that seem really unlikely in fact borderline impossible.
Zoonama is able to predict the earthquakes long in advance and thus just shows up to the village when a few are supposed to happen, puts on a show, and thus villagers think he caused them and cower before him, that's pretty much his entire plan.
Then why wasn't his able to predict the massive earthquake that destroyed his lair until moments before it happened? you think if he could predict long in advance he would have already move out. or was he planning to dying a horrible death along with his new wife during their honeymoon after his plan finally works?
Why are so many people here whining about plot holes for a series that was the successor to two other series that are basically Rule of Cool personified and have never cared about consistency or making any sense whatsoever? Why do they fault GT for being no less nonsensical than DB or DBZ?
The reason for this is because the story in GT has sooo many plot holes and inconsistency that it simply doesn't hold together. It's like the writers wanted the audience to just forget about everything that happen in DBZ and DB. While it is true DBZ and DB has inconsistencies it was mostly due to filler or had no real bearing on the plot or story this is not the case for GT. And even if DBZ and DB where far from being prefect animes that still doesn't justify the poorly written stories all of the plot hole that are in GT, Nor is it a reason not to talk about them.
This troper takes GT as a completely different anime.
If Baby hates saiyans so much, then why was he so happy to be in Vegeta's body?
It's the most powerful body available. Plus imagine the irony — the remaining saiyans killed by a saiyan.
Goku was turned into a kid because the writers wanted the show to be like DB and DBZ, but isn't it a bit selfish(and creepy) that Chi-Chi, a middle-aged woman, is forced to have a 6 year old for a husband? I'm pretty sure cops would be knocking on her door to take her away if she told someone about her "younger husband".
Why did SSJ4 Gogeta waste most of the fight with omega shenron simply mocking him? Even if it was just to remove the negative energy that's covering the earth. Wouldn't make more sense to kill Omega Shenron first and then worry about the negative energy.
Same as above.
Because he doesn't know that his fusion time is going to be cut short and thus thinks he can mess with Omega for a while. That, and both heroes and villains screwing around when they could just snap their fingers and kill their opponent only for it to backfire is a ridiculously common thing in Dragonball.
Except this time it's completely out of character, Gogeta is a combination of Goku sense of justice and Vegeta seriousness.The Gogeta from Fusion reborn would never goof around with his opponent.he has zero tolerance for evil and shows no mercy for evil beings. When fighting super Janemba he ended that fight in less than 30 seconds. He would have done the same for omega.
Or maybe, just maybe, the personalities of both Goku and Vegeta have changed pretty significantly in a few years, resulting in a fused character that's more of a goofball. Vegeta for instance has mellowed out a great deal since DBZ, and Goku has become far more concerned with creating a worthy successor than fighting these days. It's not out of character if there's been character development in the interim.
It still kind of is for Gogeta, this is a complete 180 of his personality it's like if Batman started telling knock knock jokes and asking criminals to pull his finger. it would still be odd even if you claimed he mellowed out over the years. Goku sense Of justice didn't seem diminish too much since the Buu saga nor did Vegeta seriousness for that matter, and seeing how those were Gogeta core personality he still should have acted mostly the same.
According to the DBZ time line Dr.Myuu was created by Baby 50 years ago and yet according to Baby he created Dr.Myuu with a Black star Dragon inside his head this doesn't make sense because the Black star Ball only got scattered recently....so what thr hell?
It would make sense if Myuu added the Black Star Ball to Baby only recently.
I think you misunderstood what I wrote (sorry for the errors) the Dragon ball was in Myuu's head not in baby's head.
Baby states that Myuu was manipulated by him to create his body, not that Baby created Myuu himself.
That still doesn't explain how Baby somehow magically place a Blackstar dragonball in Myuus head 50 freakin years before they got scattered in the first place ,all while not have a body mind you. also yes it does says that baby created Myuu and programmed him too at least according to His bios on wikiand tv tropes . GT just makes that little sense.
This falls under the "You failed me" trope. If Dolltaki knew Dr. Myuu would have him killed for his failure, then why did he report back to his planet? Why not flee to the other side of the universe and change his identity? This moron goes back to his master's planet and gets killed by the general.
Maybe Dolltaki would have preferred that to spending whatever was left of his life living in fear of Dr. Myuu. Either that, or Dr. Myuu doesn't actually do that very often.
If Dolltaki did came back on purpose to face his faith opposed to running and hiding and living the rest of his life in fear then it would a completely out of character moment since acting cowardly, and running and hiding seem to be a really big part of his personality up until this point . Plus he seemed surprised and terrified when he was about to be killed and even begged for his life so I really doubt this was Dolltaki intension. And if it's the latter and Myuu doesn't usually back up his threats then why are so many of his men so scared of him? only possibility I can think up is that Dolltaki honestly thought he could convince Myuu not to kill him, and even then that seems foolish.
I meant, maybe he decided that simply facing his fate would have been better than the alternative, or that while Dr. Myuu does kill people who fail him, he doesn't do it all the time so maybe he thought he could be one of the exceptions. Besides, bad guys who fail their superiors for some reason go back to their superiors despite knowing that their boss will probably kill them, this is no different.
If getting killed was Dolltaki's intension then why did he seem so scared of dying.
Why wouldn't he be?
Because this was all apparently apart of his plan, and no one is making him do this. If dying scared him so much he could easily run away or not report back. the universe is very very vast place and they'll probably never ever find him if he did choose to run.
He's scared to death of dying, doesn't mean he wasn't ready to die. Contrary to what fiction will tell you, it is rare to find somebody who goes to face their death just stoically taking the bullet. No, they're terrified and they act as such. There are really any number of reasons Dolltaki could have done what he did, it doesn't have to be out of character for him to do. Besides, as I said before, this kind of thing happens a lot in fiction, it doesn't make sense and doesn't have to. It's just something a character does for some reason and that reason isn't always something the audience is privy to.
I can't think of that many examples of a Character reporting back to their Insane Boss(who not only said he'll kill him but tried too already) for reasons that were never given or that completely conflicts their character in fiction. and even this does happen from time to time it's bad writing plan and simple. Characters can changes and grow overtime but they do not (or should not) suddenly act out of character just of the sake of plot convenience , And a good writer should try to explain character's motives or at least make it apparent. Here they failed, If what you are saying is true and that getting killed was truly Dolltaki's intension ( as conflicting to his character as that maybe) then the writers did a terrible job of establishing it. They gave absolutely zero indication that was his intention. That aside, the show give no logically or sensible reason and that probably because there is none. Facing certain death head on is not something a dirty coward would do especially in this case. I mean Myuu already has a lot on his plate, he trying to collect the Black star dragon balls, he's also tracking the sayain and finding a way to kill them, and trying to revive baby. you think he'll really waste his time and his effort sending a group of killers to hunter down and kill a single minion that he no longer has any use for throughout the entire universe. That could take years, and Myuu has way bigger fish fry.
What happened to Planet Vegeta/Tuffle after Baby Saga.
Why is it that when Goku's a kid, Pan is rude and disrespectful to him, but when he is in SS 4 form and all grown up, she is nice to him? I always find that weird.
Maybe his aura makes her get a certain respect for him?
Actually, it's doubly so for most viewers as well.
In episode 3 where Goku's IT fails and the z fighters end up falling from an insane height why didn't they just fly?I mean this happen twice you think the second time this happen they would at least remember they can fly.
In episode 4 Pan gets hit in the head with a tin can and this almost causes her to cry. Which is weird consider in episode 3 she fell a least 50 feet directly on her head (twice) and shook it off like it was nothing.
If you don't concentrate on an oncoming attack you get hurt. In Z, Krillin threw a rock at Goku while Goku was sleeping in SSJ form and it hurt him.
Yeah but getting hit with a rock actually hurts. While getting hit with and empty tin can doesn't. Even if she wasn't concentrating empty tin can can't hurt a normal human.
In episode 4 Goku, Pan , and Trunk decides to quietly sneak into Don Kee's castle. Pan insisted that they must not let any of the guards see them and that they shouldn't attack the guards unless they're caught.However all the guards are armed with simple machine gun which does nothing to them.So this whole subtlety thing is completely unnecessary. There simple was no reason why they couldn't just charge in there Leeroy Jenkin's style and take back their ship.Those guard couldn't possible put any kind of real resistant.
In episode 5 Goku,Pan, and Trunks are being hunted down by Don Kee's soldiers, and a good portion of the episode is made up of the z fighters running and hiding from them.This unnecessary since mostly all the guards can't use ki or even fly and are just armed with guns that do nothing to them. Goku, Trunks, and Pan could have easily defeated Don Kee's entire army (Goku could done this all by himself honestly) ,kick Don Kee out of power, and freed those financial slaves. Granted they finally do this 3 episode into the story but they could done all this from the beginning.
Why does Goku, Pan, and Trunks tried to evade Don Kee's soldiers by jumping from building to building opposed to just flying?
Why did they even need to build a new spaceship to find the black star dragon balls? Why not just used the ship made from Goku's capsules. it's should still be there, Vegeta returned it so why not used that? There's enough room in that ship to bring everyone and it would most likely not fall apart like the new one.
Why couldn't Baby become a Super Saiyan 4 after transforming? Was it because he was slowly losing his control?
Was Baby meant to be a sympathetic villain like Magneto? A racist guy blinded with hate and bigotry? I'm confused. I can understand a guy being upset that his race was destroyed by the saiyans and wanting revenge against all saiyans, but he comes off as a full blown villain. He's willing to kill his own Tuffle people and "queen" to get what he wants.
How did old Supreme Kai know about the Super Saiyan 4 transformation all along unless such a powerful Saiyan had existed before? The previous super saiyan shown in Z died after losing control over his own power as an ape.
Maybe he gained control right after that. As the Frieza Saga shows planets can take a long time to blow up and that's when done on purpose. A Golden Oozaru just firing wildly could easily destroy a planet in such a way that gave him long enough to gain control but without Instant Transmission he's still SOL.