Changed Broken Base part regarding Khan's Race Lift. Blatantly one sided and insulting.
I feel like this example is Square Peg Round Trope:
- Values Dissonance: Khan's Race Lift was because of this. Had Khan been cast with an Indian or Middle-Eastern actor, "John Harrison's" overtly terrorist actions may have led to further Unfortunate Implications with the character.
Values Dissonance, according to the trope definition, is about a trope or character not aging well because of changing values. But it's not the character of Khan that hasn't aged well, it's what they chose to do with the character that causes problems. In his original portrayals, nothing about Khan was terrorist in motivation or action; those Unfortunate Implications are entirely on the new movie. The Khan issues are closer to Didn't Think This Through on the part of the filmmakers ("this movie's villain is a terrorist, let's make him Khan for name appeal, oops that might be seen as a stereotype, we need to Race Lift him) than Values Dissonance inherent to the character or the franchise.
I cut this one.
- Alternative Character Interpretation: In addition to the usual Ho Yay (see below) shipping between Kirk and Spock we see Kirk develop an attraction to Carol Marcus when not spending his nights with attractive alien twins. Kirk's penchant for sleeping with just about anyone (or anything) that doesn't run away from him might as well cast him as Depraved Bisexual.
I don't see how really liking sex makes Kirk depraved. All the times we're seen him, he's been with consenting and of-age partners. He's not even doing anything particularly kinky. Just having sex with a lot of people.
Edited by 70.88.226.169 Hide / Show Replies
His voyeur tendencies might make him slightly depraved. Otherwise, I have no idea what that example was supposed to be.
Wait, people put Admiral Pike in Ron the Death Eater? How the hell does that even work?
Edited by 216.99.32.42
Glad to see that I'm not the only one who saw the similarities to the DS9 two-parter.
Edited by 216.99.32.44
- Evil Is Sexy: Subverted. John Harrison as played by Benedict Cumberbatch, largely considered to be unattractive outside of particular, minute demographics.
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- Evil Is Sexy: The evil John Harrison, with his slicked back hair and Badass Longcoat, was found to be quite sexy by some of the movie's fans.
Okay, suggestions for how we can come to a happy middle ground. Sex appeal is certainly very subjective and all data is largely anecdotal.
Honestly, I just used "some fans" as the group because it's suitably vague and didn't think it would piss off anyone on either side. Can we get a source in there that confirms the amount of viewer who find Harrison attractive is actually "minuscule"? Can we merge it into something along the lines of "some found him sexy, others not so much"?
Is there a point to having a meme-ish gif of Cumberbatch laughing? It's not from the film.
Edited by 216.99.32.42 Hide / Show Replies
Even if this counted as Evil Is Sexy, this is Not A Subversion. Subverting a trope is a deliberate attempt to invoke it so they can pull the rug out from under you.
Yeah, the creators only really play with Kirk's sex appeal in these two films.
Harrison's clothing on the Enterprise (once his Badass Longcoat was removed) seemed to be quite form-fitting. Benedict Cumberbatch also gained a reasonable amount of muscle for the film, although arguably that is merely to make Harrison appear strong rather than sexy. However, there is also a deleted scene in which Harrison takes a shower.
Was Admiral Marcus submitted to the Complete Monster thread? Also, I'd contest his entry on the basis that he does seem to care about his daughter.
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Marcus was submitted and the (I think unanimous) consensus was that his love for his daughter disqualifies him.
Am I the only one who thinks this:
-Americans Hate Tingle: The producers of this film found themselves facing unexpected criticism from the Sikh community that was really looking forward to the film's villain, Khan Noonien Singh, played by a Sikh actor. Of course, the producers wanted to avoid the Unfortunate Implication of non-white character being a villain, but the Sikh noted that the character is such a classic Magnificent Bastard and Tragic Villain who physically and mentally outclasses any white man that it was a disappointment he was played by a British actor.
Needs a source? Not so much because I don't believe there was backlash, but merely because I haven't seen a lot of it attributed to actual Sikhs and the entry doesn't list any outside of just naming the incredibly large religious group. Doing some quick research myself and a look at the 'Reception' section on Wikipedia didn't turn up any critics claiming to be Sikh, though there were some who have ties to the Asian continent (for eg. Garret Wang.).
I figured that if it was under 'Americans hate Tingle' we might want to show that it's different to just 'Broken Base.' I'm not suggesting that it be deleted, just edited if such a source exists.
Edited by Dreammaster1