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Shaoken Since: Jan, 2001
Feb 3rd 2014 at 2:10:05 AM •••

All proposals or requests for removals should go to the Complete Monster Cleanup thread set up for that very purpose. Requests to add characters on the discussion page will get ignored.

Septentrius Since: Jan, 2013
Jan 2nd 2013 at 10:35:18 AM •••

It looks like the person who wrote the Desus entry mixed him up with Arkadi to create some sort of uberbastard; he's not a serial rapist/killer in canon. See Leliel's post here: http://forums.white-wolf.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=70894&p=3 .

He also isn't presented as lacking in redeeming features. I don't think he really qualifies for this trope.

aurora369 Since: Jan, 2001
Apr 10th 2012 at 9:49:12 PM •••

Correction about Deadlands

Ezekiah Grimme isn't just any Complete Monster, he's an amalgamation of thirteen Complete Monsters who ate a priest (the actual Grimme) who was trying to save them.

Edited by aurora369
Shaoken Since: Jan, 2001
Nov 13th 2011 at 7:25:21 PM •••

As apart of the clean up, I removed the following:

  • "The Book of Vile Darkness" also gives is the Vashar, a whole race of complete monsters. The Vashar were the Gods' first attempt at creating humans, but something went wrong and the result was a race of horrid, degenerate savages. The gods abandoned their flawed creations in disgust, but various archfiends took the opportunity to "perfect" this new race. The result is a whole race of humans utterly incapable of love, compassion, or faith. Whereas an individual Drow or Orc might see the light and become good, this never happens with the Vashar. The book even mentions that Vashar never take hostages, as they cannot comprehend how anyone could value someone or something more than themselves.

The Vashar I removed because they seem to suffer from Blue-and-Orange Morality. From the way the write up describes them they are that way by nature, not by choice. Complete Monsters are monsters because they chose to be, not because situations ot of their control renders them unable to be anything else.

As for the Jerren, details are crucial. If you don't know what goblinoids do, you would have no clue why they're on this list. So, an expansion of it is needed.

Anyway, here is a link to the current page of the cleanup topic: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=6vic3f9h1cy5qivsenw8llok&page=13#302

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WanderingBrowser Since: Jan, 2001
Jan 19th 2012 at 12:02:36 AM •••

I would suggest that the Vashar still deserve a mention, noting that they fail to fit by means of a technical definition - aka their mental incapability of comprehending "good". As for Jerren... perhaps something like this...?

  • Jerren are a "dark mirror" of halflings who found themselves being oppressed by goblins, and so decided to Fight Fire with Fire. Goblins are a Usually Chaotic Evil race of cowardly, cruel, rapacious, heartless vermin who have no problems with murdering (or torturing to death) and then eating their own family members, and tend to unite primarily to harrass, kill, torture, enslave and eat other races. The Jerren were so extreme in their methods to fight the goblins that they didn't simply stoop to their level — they went screaming with bloodlust past the moral event horizon, and have become a race of sadistic cannibals so vile that they disgust and terrify the goblins they were fighting.

Shaoken Since: Jan, 2001
Jan 19th 2012 at 7:16:14 PM •••

I think the concensus by the TRS and Special Efforts clean up is that subversions, inversions, or anything else shouldn't be on this page; only straight examples should be here to prevent trope decay. We don't want to encourage people to put bad examples on here, that's what lead to the TRS thread and the trope almost getting the axe.

As for the Jerren, again, details. Saying they're worse than Goblins still isn't telling us what they do. Is it just a Deliver Onto Evil situation? What event made them cross the Moral Event Horizon? What do they actually do? These are all important details that are unanswered.

And again to keep the link going; this is the current page of the clean up effort, so all proposed new addittions go there first to be vetted before being brought to the mods to add on.

WanderingBrowser Since: Jan, 2001
Jan 21st 2012 at 12:56:47 AM •••

Through the incomprehensible whims of the internet, I actually found a complete, freely read/downloaded PDF of the Book of Vile Darkness via Google, and this is a direct copy-paste of the material it has on Jerrens and Vashar.

VASHAR There is a legend that few tell of a race known as the Vashar. Intelligent beings do not speak of the legend not only because of the darkness involved but also because of the shame.

When the gods set out to create humanity, they formed the first man and gave him life. According to the legend of the Vashar, the first man immediately began hunting in the wilderness while the gods watched their new creation with curiosity. The man found an animal and killed it with his bare hands. The gods were surprised by the brutality, but they continued to watch. The man ate the animal’s flesh and tore away at its guts until he found some large bones. It lashed these bones together with tendons and sinew, demonstrating a cleverness that further surprised the deities.

Then the man broke one of the bones so that it had a sharp point, creating a weapon. He immediately turned upon his creators and attempted to kill them, snarling his first words—curses and death-oaths. The deities were in no danger, of course, but they were disgusted by what they had wrought. They destroyed the man and left. They would return in later eons to create humanity, learning from the mistakes made in their first attempt.

After they left, a demon gathered the remains of the first man and spirited them away to a hidden location—an impossibly high plateau accessible only through a series of underground catacombs filled with foul corruptions of nature. There, the demon resurrected the man and created a woman. The demon bestowed upon them the ability to procreate, then disappeared back to the Abyss with an evil grin.

Many versions of the legend name the demon Graz’zt, before he became a demon lord, as the one whose dark hand fashioned these two. A few others call the fiend an ultroloth. One version describes the demon as a succubus who actually gives birth to the man’s children, imbuing the race with demonic blood.

This, it is said, is the origin of the Vasharan people.

Vasharans are humans, but they are to other humans as drow are to elves. In a normal human society, evil individuals are mixed amid the neutral and good people, but Vasharans are evil as a race. Vasharans rarely call themselves evil, but they do not object to others putting that label on them. They claim to be beyond such terms.

All Vasharans are born out of rape, anger, and pain. They understand only hate, selfishness, and greed. Yet as much as they love to kill and maim, one goal fuels their souls even more strongly: deicide. The Vasharans want to kill the deities that created them. This burning hunger for goddeath keeps them bound together as a reluctant society. While Vasharans sometimes kill other Vasharans, it is a rare act despite their bloodthirsty, destructive, and utterly immoral nature.

Vasharan Personality: Vasharans do not understand concepts such as mercy, kindness, or love—not even toward each other. These concepts are so alien to them that they rarely think to use the emotions of others as leverage. For example, only a Vasharan with years of experience among other humanoids would kidnap someone; most would not even consider that the victim’s friends might actually value her life. Vasharans also show no revulsion for creatures or acts that other humans find repellent. They have no aversion to gore or filth, they have no taboos against rape and incest, and they have no distaste for creatures such as insects, serpents, and worms. If a Vasharan believes that eating maggots will somehow help her, she won’t hesitate to do so.

JERREN Jerren are halflings, although they despise that name. About two hundred years ago, the Jerren were typical nomadic halflings who inhabited a wide prairie. Every spring, they were beset by goblins and bugbears from the nearby hills. These raids cost the Jerren dearly in lives and food, eventually threatening to wipe out the halflings entirely. The leaders of the various Jerren clans gathered one winter and made a harsh decision. They called upon all the spellcasters among the Jerren and gave them access to corrupt magic secured from a secret source. They armed each warrior with terrible poisons and weapons designed to spread disease and plague among the goblinoids.

The next spring, the ensuing war between the Jerren and their enemies threatened to wipe out both sides.

Blood stained the prairie. Even with their new tactics, the Jerren would have lost, except that their previous decision opened the door to further malevolence. Soon the halflings were committing atrocities against their enemies that even the goblins and bugbears found repulsive.

When the latter retreated into the hills, the Jerren followed them. Soon all that remained of the goblinoids were heads upon spikes positioned throughout the hills and grisly scenes that suggested bloody sacrifices made to evil gods.

Today, the plains are inhabited by terrible bands of vicious halflings who seek to overcome, feed upon, and corrupt all those they can hunt down and catch. All travelers and prairie-dwellers fear Jerren hunters.

Jerren Personality: Jerren are ruled by strength and blood lust. No leader can manage to control more than a small band ofthese chaotic and evil halflings, and those who show even the slightest bit of weakness or mercy are quickly cut down and devoured by the others. Like other halflings, Jerren live a nomadic lifestyle. They prey upon others for their food and most of their goods. The only things Jerren produce are instruments of war and torture—and the poisons for which they are now infamous.

Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
Dec 17th 2010 at 7:48:35 PM •••

Proposed revision to the Dark Eldar entry for 40K, since my editing is still acting up:

  • The Dark Eldar, twisted, Chaos-tainted aliens who inflict torture and suffering to survive, are a debatable case. Really, it depends on whether you see them as victims of their ancestors' mistakes desperately trying to convince themselves that a lifetime of murder, pain, and constant backstabbing is better than getting killed horribly by an Eldritch Abomination, or vicious, sadistic nutbags who couldn't be happier that their favourite hobby happens to be good for their health as well. The background provides ample ammunition for both interpretations, especially with the release of the new codex.

Edited by Iaculus What's precedent ever done for us?
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