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15th Jan, 2020 11:13:04 AM

Well that handle doesn't exactly promise objectivity.

15th Jan, 2020 07:26:58 PM

The discussion said "[Hypocrite] is not an audience reaction; it must be noted in the work". If true, there's probably a lot of clean up to do.

15th Jan, 2020 09:12:59 PM

If true then a majority of the page would automatically have to be deleted , yes. Not only in that page but other movie pages as well and movie character pages etc etc.

15th Jan, 2020 10:29:52 PM

^ That's fine. It suffered severe Trope Decay and the decay needs to be fixed.

This reminds me of Annoying Laugh, where people were using it as an audience reaction rather than an objective trope.

15th Jan, 2020 11:49:02 PM

Do we recommend this to a mod?

Edited by Tuvok
15th Jan, 2020 11:50:39 PM

If anything we just take it to TRS and see what happens.

16th Jan, 2020 02:23:58 AM

I mean, I am Team Tony myself, but this guy is extremely biased. The examples should probably be brought back, maybe with a slight rewrite

Edited by Forenperser
16th Jan, 2020 05:59:28 AM

You have a very good point. But now I'm torn. If the definitions are incorrect then the examples used on multiple pages should be cut. Thing is 1). It's a HUGE undertaking 2)I doubt my ability to voice the why and how to undertake such a thing and 3) the more I think on it I kind of think the way it's used now while given to interpretation hence discussion and ATT kind of works.

Edited by Tuvok
16th Jan, 2020 06:58:49 AM

Maybe ask a mod for clarification?

16th Jan, 2020 10:45:33 AM

^^ Look, if examples don't match the description of the trope, it's misuse. It doesn't matter how pervasive the misuse is; something has to be done to fix it, and I'm entirely okay with cutting out huge swaths of examples if it means the misuse stops. If you're not, fine, but that's the way it works here. The entire fact that TRS even exists proves that people will be willing to do the legwork to clean up the trope, even if you personally wouldn't know how to.

16th Jan, 2020 11:06:22 AM

^ I honestly think that this trope should be re-defined, if anything, similar to The Dragon etc. I reckon a good 90% of this particular trope have observable, not in-universe examples. Which is honestly for the better, I mean if a character preaches A, but does B, he IS a hypocrite, doesn't matter if he is called out on it or not.

Edited by Forenperser
16th Jan, 2020 11:12:36 AM

^ I personally disagree here (otherwise it'd be a subjective trope calling out bad writing, rather than an objective trope, since if the creator intended the character to be seen as a hypocrite they'd make it obvious by, well, calling it out.), but that's still a discussion to be had on TRS, not here. Either way, we need to take this to TRS, not just leave it because "it's fine".

16th Jan, 2020 12:26:02 PM

Ok maybe we need to flag a mod for input.

16th Jan, 2020 12:54:46 PM

^^

if the creator intended the character to be seen as a hypocrite they'd make it obvious by, well, calling it out.

Not necessarily; perhaps only the audience knows about the character's hypocrisy, and all the other characters in the story are in the dark.

E.g. maybe a character publicly goes on a moral crusade against the evils of porn, and then the audience sees them ogling over a Playboy when they're alone. The character is obviously and intentionally a hypocrite, but none of the other characters is able to call them out on it.

Edited by HighCrate
16th Jan, 2020 03:10:11 PM

EDIT: Nevermind, this isn't the time to be joking.

Edited by NubianSatyress
16th Jan, 2020 04:26:27 PM

^^ Then in that case it's still obviously intentional. My concern is changing things to allow for subjective interpretation.

16th Jan, 2020 07:07:17 PM

Since this seems to have moved away from the initial discussion point, should this conversation be continued elsewhere?

16th Jan, 2020 08:18:25 PM

I'm up for a revamp. I don't think limiting the trope to lampshaded examples is a good idea.

18th Jan, 2020 01:11:28 AM

Bump for mod attention.

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