Ask The Tropers

If I'm allowed to defend myself (if this is not allowed, then I apologize).

The author of the series himself has called them enemies but not villains. There is also a series of canon novels released that portray them in a better light. The characters are also more based on Jesus and the army of angels he commands, complete with angel motives and the exact same goals and actions as in Revelation. Also, this one in particular is not me adding an trope, but reverting a trope that had been deleted for something that never happened in the series.

At this point youve ignored the consensus multiple times even when people have warned you not to do that and are now effectively fighting with the Complete Monster cleanup thread trying to whitewash the guy. Ill let the mods handle this.

I should note I believe we practice something akin to 'Death of the Author'...the writer claiming they're 'not villains', but writing a villain as essentially a weird mix of Hitler and Jesus who's incredibly evil does not mean we should be practicing a positive interpretation of them.

Light Is Not Good is a trope after all. Also, manga and Japanese media have a ton of "as long as it looks symbolic" recurring themes where religious symbolism is just there as window dressing.

I agree, just because a writer intended one thing doesn't mean their writing supports that intention.

Not so much "Death of the Author" as "The story as written takes precedence over the author's stated interpretation". A kind of meta Show, Don't Tell.

That's exactly what Death of the Author is.

I should also note that the 'Jesus' comparisons seem...more for contrast at best, as the character is a ruthless, mass murdering, sadistic dictator.

I do find it unfair that the Nazi parallels are used as examples as how there can't be anything possibly good, but when it comes to religious parallels, it is suddenly just window dressing. The comparisons to Jesus are not a contrast. Everything Yhwach did, is something Jesus did in Revelation as well. With the exception of Yhwach trying to save his father, their goals and actions are indentical.

^ Hold on, Jesus was a mass murdering dictator? Really? Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't think that's quite correct...

In any case, when the author intent contradicts anything in the actual story, we need to take a Death of the Author approach because the story is where the tropes are.

a ruthless, mass murdering, sadistic dictator.

Everything Yhwach did, is something Jesus did in Revelation as well.

Something does not compute.

Actions of a messianic figure in a religious text (such as the book of Revelations) are rife with symbolism and various interpretations. Adding to that, a fictional work is not held up to that same degree of eschatological interpretation that the Book of Revelations is subject to.

If the consensus of the community is not going your way regarding keeping an edit, then your edit will be removed. Attempting to add it back will be an Edit War and subject to suspension of wiki privileges as needed.

I'm not really seeing the 'everything in Revelation' thing...I don't claim to be a biblical scholar, but while there are parallels to be drawn that aren't coincidental...Yhwach's actions also consist of:

• Murdering his loyal followers for a power boost twice
• Purging the 'genetically impure' from his ranks to empower himself, children included.
• torturing and murdering a subordinate for no reason
• slaughtering tons of soldiers in a war he starts.

As I said, I I am not going to deny there are parallels in the religious trappings to Yhwach, but he is absolutely a down and out villain as the manga depicts him and a lot of what he does is unquestionably not what Jesus does in Revelation or otherwise....for one thing the Black-and-White Morality of that is not present in Bleach.

I will accept that.

But just to clarify what I meant with everything Yhwach did, is something Jesus did. This is not meant to continue the argument and I don't expect an answer or anything like that.

Just to give a few examples, in Revelation, Jesus and his army killed a third of the human population. Everyone who has not pure enough, was purged without mercy. He sent a woman to her deathbed for her impurity and killed all her children. The book ends with the destruction of the world and Jesus/God creating a world where death does not exist, for those who were chosen by him. This should cover most of what Yhwach did.

But, as I said. I will accept the consensus and move on.

Again, eschatology does not apply to Bleach.

Go ahead and the remove the example if it's still up.