Ask The Tropers

Unintentionally Sympathetic would cover bad writing.

Draco in Leather Pants for the fandom's side.

Because audiences sympathize AUTO because hes just following orders despite his "MEH"

A Moral Event Horizon means a moment where a character does something so heinous, there's no chance of a redemption for them. Essentially, the character is genuinely heinous villain for what they've done and cannot be reasoned or bargained with at this point. They're too far gone.

I assume you're referring to AUTO from WALL•E. I know you're aware of the Moral Event Horizon Clean-Up Thread, so you can bring the entry up there if you have an issue with it.

Edited by chasemaddigan

You might be looking for Well-Intentioned Extremist and/or Necessarily Evil, whose morally reprehensible actions are a result of The Needs of the Many or Utopia Justifies the Means.

Edited by RoundRobin - Fly, robin, fly! - ...I'm trying!

Also, I have a huge problem with the Moral Event Horizon description, it states that that villain or hero is irredeemably "evil". That is wrong and super subjective, it should mean that person's actions are unforgivable and also, some people might disagree with the statement because of aspects like Gray and Gray Morality or Unintentionally Sympathetic where even if they've crossed it some peop!e !ight either sympathize with them because of either context or what they're goals are, the moral event horizon is subjective and therefore should not be taken as completely true

Understanding a person's motives and forgiving their heinous actions are two entirely different things. Also, whether the MEH is subjective or not is sometimes a matter of Values Dissonance, both across time and across different cultures. Still, there are actions that have always been and will, I hope, always be reprehensible.

The problem is that MEH is often misused and applied to, for lack of a better word, "lighter" crimes. That's why there's the cleanup thread chasemaddigan linked earlier.

Edited by RoundRobin - Fly, robin, fly! - ...I'm trying!

The following quote is paraphrased to better address the points:

Those concepts are synonymous. A character that is "irredeemably evil" cannot be forgiven for their evil. Because this is "super subjective", Moral Event Horizon is a YMMV trope. Certain audiences, such as myself, do not believe in "unforgivable crimes", instead believing that anyone can be forgiven, no matter what they've done. Someone like me could be sympathetic to a MEH character.

Edited by crazysamaritan Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

^ Same. I don't believe that MEH actually exists. But some people do, and also everyone draws the line in a different place, that's why it is a YMMV trope.

As I've stated on the MEH cleanup thread, I think the MEH has to be portrayed as irredeemable in universe first to count and then fan opinion is considered- a character who does something that the work itself treats as being impossible to repent for clearly crossed the MEH by the standards of the work, but fans might disagree on where the line was crossed or if the character is actually irredeemable by their own standards.

In other words, while some fans might still feel sympathetic toward characters who crossed the MEH, if the work itself treats the character and their action as crossing some sort of line, then I think it'd count.

I'm in the "some actions are really irredeemable" camp, but speaking in terms of fiction, the line is dependent on the story- in some stories, just being willing to hurt an innocent would count, while in others a character would have to commit murder, rape, or similar.

Edited by WarJay77 Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness