Webcomics You'd Like To See Improve

The title of this thread is "Webcomics you'd like to see improve." If you do not believe it can be improved, please don't list it here. (To be fair, this is not On-Topic Conversations, but every board ought to take a pair of scissors to any non-express License To Whine.)

That's Feo . . . He's a disgusting, mysoginistic, paedophilic asshat who moonlights as a shitty writer—Something Awful

I think there is a difference between irreconcilability and improvement. Just because I think the webcomic is past the point of irredeemable doesn't mean the author shouldn't improve himself.

Also, License To Whine applies to trope articles. I have every right to my opinion on the forums.

My other signature is a Gundam.

Specifically, though, 'irredeemable' doesn't really help much with the 'what things, and why?' question in the OP.

Basically, the topic seems to be more a case of 'how would you go about fixing this webcomic?'.

For LFG, I would personally try to cut down on the Mood Whiplash, try to get the essential points and guidelines of my story written down somewhere so that it moves in an interesting, internally-consistent manner, and try to balance the amount of humour provided amongst the cast, rather than having Richard as the exclusive source of funny.

Just as a few suggestions, anyway.

edited 15th Oct '10 3:42:08 PM by Iaculus

What's precedent ever done for us?

^And learn that pop-culture references do not an instant funny make.

Likes many underrated webcomics

''..so what you're saying, is that this is an unnatural state of being? I mean clearly, beautiful women should not ever desire "un-shallowness" in romantic partners! It's not like beautiful, intelligent women should be expected to have actual standards for their romantic partners!

I seriously hope that that's not what you're saying! ''

No I'm not saying that. I'm saying that the way it's done with Kimiko is "nice guy" wish fulfillment. When I say that Kimiko's uninterested in shallow guys, I mean that she's specifically uninterested in what Aaron Diaz thinks of as shallow. If we could jump into Dresden Codak Land and convince Kimiko to fill out a dating agency questionnaire about Kimiko's idea of the ideal man, we'd probably end up with a profile of someone who likes everything that Aaron Diaz likes, is good at everything Aaron Diaz admires, and doesn't have time for anything that Diaz sees as shallow and boring.

Fortunately Diaz has the good sense to realise that Kimiko is more sympathetic as a loner, so we'll hopefully never have to see a Marty Stu come along and sweep Mary Sue off her feet.

The End Of Things Could, you know, Update at some point. one update in the last.... two years?

Could be worse. You could be a Platinum Grit fan, where complaining about waiting a year or two for an update will get all the longtime fans grumbling about how kids today have got it easy and back in MY day we sometimes had to wait three or four years for an update. Uphill. In the snow. :D

I'll have to say that I literally feel this way about every single webcomic I read.

Although some _need_ it more than others, I personally find any series that can actually show major improvement over time to be by _far_ the most enjoyable.

I do feel like certain comics are more .. open for it as well though;

OOTS right now ... the story's somewhat bland, but I do feel that it had to do with the updates being a bit ..off for a while, the art style is so awfully templated that I couldn't imagine how it'd improve much visually, so it's one of the few comics where I don't actually expect improvement that much.

Other comics I read vary in how much they need to improve ...

Girl Genius: the story's insanely slow right now, I'd be satisfied if Zola got a bus dropped on her in the very next page so that the story could go on; I also have _fundamental_ problems with the art style, but have little hope for it to step up it's game, and don't think it hurts the comic enough for me to see it as a reason to stop reading.

Goblins: I bloody don't understand how anyone can call the art in this comic good, it's not godawful and definitely not lazy, the guy has nice thick lines that are easy to read.

.. but ... good? Never, no, not at all; I'm sure parts of this are very subjective but I have a very strong dislike for the art in Goblins due to various reasons, often relating to anatomy, odd backgrounds, odd constructs, odd character design, his complete and utter inability to draw hair.

The story in Goblins can be weird, but I enjoy it well enough, but I honestly feel like the guy's style is completely based around him figuring out a small handful of things he _can_ draw and him just sticking to that.

I'd really look foreward to the day that characters in Goblins get haircuts that actually look like haircuts, not that frizzly stuff he draws as "hair" .

3. Dominic Deegan needs to improve every single thing there is, I still silently wish for this comic to suddenly take that big step foreward that I've been waiting for ... for roughly 5 years now.

I'm sure there's more, but these are all the ones I can really think of.

The only comic that I have super little to say about is Gunnerkrigg Court, possibly because it's one of the comics that _has_ improved a lot.

Pixel artist extraordinaire

Oh, the art can improve for sure. I mean, look at the Art Evolution in something like Keychain Of Creation. Sure, there are distinct differences in the styles, but they were very similar before Jukashi stopped making them as stick figures. For example, he could in fact use angles. With Order Of The Stick style, it sounds hard, but trust me, I've done it.

Can't say much about the others, since the only other comic I've read besides Oot S that you mentioned is Gunnerkrigg Court.

Oh, and hey Norice.

ᐅᖃᐅᓯᖅ ᐊᑕᐅᓯᖅ ᓈᒻᒪᔪᐃᑦᑐᖅ

I actually disliked KoC's pre-unskickified art specifically because it wasn't simple enough, especially drawing the torsos and hands too detailed made it feel less like a stick figure comic and more like a lazy normal one. OotS' style is at its best when it's most abstract.

Definitely agreed on GG's pacing at the moment, but its art seems to be a matter of taste, since the creators and most of the audience (like me) absolutely love it, but some think it looks wrong.

Regarding Gunnerkrigg, I never really cared much about the (rather bland) plot, but I think the art is getting too… Normal looking. The twisted geometry, proportions, design and lighting were why I started reading it originally.

Also, if that's you and not just a fan, I really liked the switch back to pixel-art speech balloons in APtGG, and I'm looking forward to any future game projects after the beautiful work in Frogatto.

Eric,

edited 24th Oct '10 11:23:11 PM by EricDVH

Eric: Well, what I mainly meant is that Oot S could be more dynamic. Abstraction isn't bad, but I'd like to see a bit more variety as a whole.

Also, you call that too much detail? Please. This◊ is too much detail.

edited 25th Oct '10 1:02:01 AM by Zersk

ᐅᖃᐅᓯᖅ ᐊᑕᐅᓯᖅ ᓈᒻᒪᔪᐃᑦᑐᖅ

Don't post here often so not sure what the quote commands are and stuff;

But to reply to you guys

@Zersk

Well if you want to talk about OOTS improving ... just look at the first and last OOTS page, it's definitely possible for it to get much better, I'm just saying that the whole style makes it one of those comics where I'd still be perfectly fine with it if the art remained exactly the same for the next few years.

Use of perspective, lighting etc could definitely be changed up in a way that one would consider better than before, but beyond that it's ...all pretty minor.

I'm not necessarily saying it's not possible, I just don't see it happening.

..And hi.

@Eric DVH

Yeah it's me, I don't post here often (as you can probably tell by my hugely outdated avatar atm) but I do love TV Tropes. ;)

On the things you've said

GG: I liked the art when the comic was still black and white, I feel that at times the lines and/or anatomy gets far too sloppy for my taste in comparison to (Foglio?)'s lines, I get that some stuff like the faces are his "style", but I don't agree with how he's been handling it completely.

Suffice to say, I still enjoy the comic enough and consider the art "good" in some sense of the word.

GK: I kinda get what you're saying, but I'll never fight another author's conscious decision to alter a style from a "not worse, different."-type of perspective, big changes are often the easiest way to reaching a new level in quality, so I can do nothing but respect anyone willing to take big steps, even if they might be "risky".

As for aptGG: Thanks man, glad to hear that. :)

As usual with any changes I've gotten a lot of flack for changing something that ..well, big, but I've felt like making my comic "pixelart to the bone" for a long time, until the last 2 pages I just hadn't found a proper way to do it.

I hope that the people who aren't sure yet will grow to like the new balloons, as I'm satisfied with them to the point where I have absolutely no desire to switch back, at all.

Peace out!

Pixel artist extraordinaire

Please tell me if I'm crazy, but I am a bit annoyed by the same-ness of the characters in Schlock Mercenary. I mean, what am I talking about, they seem so different, right? But look at their personalities! Everyone is a Deadpan Snarker. Everyone is an Anti-Hero. Everyone has the same pragmatic view on morality. Everyone is a bit of a Jerk with a Heart of Gold.

The only exceptions are small, bit characters who are there to make some glaringly obvious stupid mistake or statement, be snarked at (and maybe shot at) by the main cast, and then maybe get killed off. Pretty much every character who becomes a regular will eventually mutate to fit the same basic mold.

It feels like every central character is a little bit of an Author Avatar, there to tell us what the author thinks is the smart thing to do, or the right way to resolve a particular moral conundrum, and everyone else is there to, basically, be stupid and maybe die.

Which isn't to say the characters are Mary Sues, of course. They do have real flaws. It's just that... It seems they, again, all have the same flaws. A bit of arrogance, a bit of not taking things seriously enough, etc., etc. (And, of course, a tendency to excessive violence, but that's rarely portrayed as a flaw). Mostly, it all works out for them.

In cases where two primary characters disagree and it turns out one was right and the other is wrong, generally the dispute will be resolved exactly the same way: a snarky speech about what an idiot one of them is being. Lots of snark. No matter who the two characters are. Eventually one will smugly show themselves to be right, and the other will maybe give some one-liner, and sulk off to lick their wounds.

I mean, it's a good comic, really. The situations are interesting, the plots are engaging, and generally, yay for well-written sci-fi web-comics. But does anyone else have the sense that the entire main cast is a bunch of cosmetically different shells, each containing the same chewy Author-flavoured filling? Or is it just me?

One response I anticipate is, "well, they're all mercenaries, so maybe being a snarky Anti-Hero just comes with the profession?" But I don't think it's a good excuse. They're just too alike for that to explain it all. It just feels like they all talk the same way, feel the same way, and, with minor variations, think the same way. You'd think even a group of necessarily tough-guy amoral mercenaries would have some more variety in their ranks... But when everyone from Ensign Ventura to the ship's AI to Captain Tagon seem like they could have a full personality switch with each other and, if their differing skill-sets could be accounted for, have it barely affect the story at all... Well, all I can say is, "meh. Wish that'd change."

And frankly, at some point, so much know-it-all amoral deadpan snarky-ness just reaches a critical mass of being a little bit irritating...

edited 16th Nov '10 8:12:03 PM by girlyboy

Pv P. Somewhere along the line...I dunno, it felt like it lost its soul. Probably when the animated series started, since the focus shifted from the comic to that and we just got months of gag comics without any real storylines.

Shutting down the forums was painful too.

Dominic Deegan: Mainly the art quality. The author's been drawing this comic for almost a decade now, and the cartoonist still cannot draw a passable face. The humor could also use a huge improvement, but zerky sees that as something that is broken far beyond repair.

Jack: Also the art. zerky would like to see characters who don't look exactly the same except for species.

Catharsis: zerky would like to see it reappear. It's been gone for months.

Homestuck: More updates. Just kidding!

I'm not certain whether I'd like to see it improve or just die but Least I Could Do could do with a slower update schedule. See, when I look at the archives there's an update every day of the week. Which is great an all but maybe the constant need to provide a jokey comic everyday means Sohmer has to use bad jokes and writing to meet the schedule. Where as if the schedule was halved then that would allow for more writing and planning and (hopefully) lead to better jokes, storylines and characters. Because I have seen good jokes come out of the comic. But a lot of the time it just falls flat, and badly.

I still like GG, but I agree that it would be great at this point if Zola was removed from the scene, either permanently or temporarily.

I think Goblins could improve a bit on the emotional scenes - mainly I think they ought be a bit more understated, because some of the panels are pure narm. I also wish he'd stop drawing females in that wierd chest-thrust-out way.

Inhuman took a brief swerve into a style I didn't like, which was mainly characters musing at length on philosophy, but the action seems to have come back to the foreground now.

Be not afraid...

Mine! The Dragon Doctors needs better art. Though to be fair, I am improving...slowly.

As far as Dominic Deegan, the art has hit a plateau a long time ago. It improved immensely in the first couple of years, then stopped evolving. Not much improvement forthcoming, I think.

Dr Mc Ninja needs better pacing. The art is fine, the jokes are fine, the pacing is wrong for a webcomic. If it was a bunch of pages all bundled together in a book you could read at once, it'd be different.

The Zombie Hunters might want to speed up the pacing. Or it could be that I read it sporadically, so maybe I don't really know...

Also, I know it doesn't count, but Concerned 2: The Continuing Adventures Of Gordon Frohman seriously needs to kick the updating into high gear.

"Hipsters: the most dangerous gang in the US." - Pacific Mackerel

LFG isn't so bad, although I do agree that LICD's Author Avatar is an extremely overblown Jerk Sue.

It's difficult to say what I want XKCD to improve (or rather, regain), because it's difficult for me to define the concept of a "joke." However, when I stopped reading it, many of the strips didn't actually seem to have jokes, just ideas that the author sort of let hang. A recent check through the new material reveals that while the author is back to doing jokes intermittently, he's still at times presenting what seem to me to be disorganized ideas. I dunno, maybe I just want him to put in more effort? (This is not in any way a criticism of the older XKCD strips—I really liked it back in the day, except for when the author got off on the occasional political tangent that, again, wasn't a joke.)

edited 28th Dec '10 6:01:14 PM by feotakahari

That's Feo . . . He's a disgusting, mysoginistic, paedophilic asshat who moonlights as a shitty writer—Something Awful

I could cite a lot of comics I think are irredeemably bad, and a lot of comics that I think have hit slow patches or aged past their natural lifetime, but I don't think either one fits the spirit of this thread: comics with simple, well-defined structural issues that keep them from reaching their full potential are actually rather thin on the ground.

Subnormality, however, is one of them. I've said this before, but it could be one of the better comics on the Net if it didn't so often resemble an explosion in an anvil factory. As it is, it's nowhere near.

edited 3rd Jan '11 4:42:14 PM by Nornagest

I will keep my soul in a place out of sight, Far off, where the pulse of it is not heard.

Seconding the above. It's worth noting that the person who does Subnormality seems to be mostly making posters these days rather than comics, and is, in fact, pretty good at it.

Also, Misfile. It actually had the potential to be good before it succumbed to the same sort of fetishy bullshit that plagues most all transformation comics.

Words cast into the uncaring void of the internet.

Ugh, misfile. You were my first webcomic. Don't do this to me! Improve dammit! You have great psychology for Ash! Please!

Read my stories!

Subnormality is irredeemable. The artist has a hella lotta talent, and some of his opinions are perfectly valid and sympathetic. The problem is that the comic is simply him venting about whatever frustrates him at the moment, and ultimately all opinionated comics fall so far into self-indulgence and douchebaggery that it destroys any potential new readers.

Doesn't matter if the webcomic in question concerns itself with furries or the vidya or anime or prog rock. Once it's writer/artist goes into RANT MODE there's no turning back.

Menage A 3 is another webcomic that could do perfectly if half the cast weren't abhorrent stereotypes. It updates regularly, tries new plotlines, and the art is clean and consistent.

Unfortunately, the author seems about as caring or knowledgeable regarding geek culture as Dick Cheney is to gun safety. I know folks like Chris-chan exist in the wild, but not every nerd has a co-dependant relationship with their Transformer toys, anymore than a punk rock chick who destroys underage trolls by ruining their childhoods is affable, rather than a cruel bitch.

edited 3rd Jan '11 7:53:14 PM by godhumanmonster