Do we really need this?: Unfortunate Implications

What exactly does this "trope" do for us?

"Uh, hey guys, a lot of things that show up in fiction are bad and politically incorrect, and people might be offended. Um, just saying, this way, nobody will get offended when they read it. Cuz, ya know, we know it's offensive. Just saying."

It gets potholed incessantly for anything that an editor might find offensive. It often makes no sense. To me Unfortunate Implications goes against our general feeling against censorship and Bowdlerizing.

EDIT: Since newcomers aren't reading through the whole thread - I'm no longer advocating a cut. I just want it kept as a Subjective Trope and for people to follow the rules - in other words, don't put it on works pages as a trope example or pothole it as a Take That!.

edited 14th Sep '10 9:43:00 PM by Martello

"Did anybody invent this stuff on purpose?" - Phillip Marlowe on tequila, Finger Man by Raymond Chandler.

Take a look at the page you are criticizing.

It's a fricking huge index, with a long list of objective tropes that are all subtropes of Unfortunate Implications.

^I got it. What I'm saying is that it's unneeded. It's People Sit On Chairs, even as an index. And editors continue to pothole it or list it as a trope used on a works page. It's just politically-correct hypersensitivity that is so characteristic of the developed Western World. I don't think it belongs on a website with the mission to identify and explore storytelling devices openly and honestly.

edited 7th Sep '10 12:18:32 PM by Martello

"Did anybody invent this stuff on purpose?" - Phillip Marlowe on tequila, Finger Man by Raymond Chandler.

I have to guard against it constantly creeping into works pages on my watchlist, with inevitable accompanying natter. Maybe if we left it as an index and cut out all mention on works pages, it would force people to use the subtrope they really want, rather than making it a dumping ground for Complaining About Shows You Dont Like.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

^^The idea that it's hypersensitive political correctness to dislike racist, sexist, homophobic etc. implications is itself an unfortunate implication. You don't think (for example) black people are uncomfortable when they see blackface scenes in old films?

I could see removing this page because it could be argued that it's not a trope (at least a few of the entries may be completely unintended by the writers), but personally, I think it makes for a good read and has a lot of interesting examples.

Not to mention, it may be useful to help aspiring writers avoid that sort of thing in their stories.

It does not matter who I am. What matters is, who will you become? - motto of Omsk Bird

Ah, the next in the "It's popular, so let's get rid of it" line. I was wondering what it was going to be.

Creed of the Happy Pessimist:Always expect the worst. Then, when it happens, it was only what you expected. All else is a happy surprise.

Is it being misused? And I don't mean "well I don't think it's unfortunate" lines. I mean being put in situations that are not even remotely unfortunate the way the trope describes.

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.

I can't really point to any specific misuse, as the trope is about personal interpretation, but there are some times where it is fairly obviously "I don't like this work, so I am finding a way to bash it."

It's one of those tropes that certainly happens, but I usually ignore it because anything can be unfortunate implications if you look at it sideways.

Eh, I think we need it. We need it more than we need forum colours, anyway.

@Doktor - I know people get uncomfortable when they see certain tropes. I said that in my initial post. My point is that anything under the sun can offend someone, and I don't see the value in pointing that out on this website. Why do we need a "this might be offensive" disclaimer? Let the reader figure that out for themselves.

@Daremo - I'm trying to think of a way you could add less to this conversation, but nothing comes to mind.

@DQZ - Yes it is. I see it potholed into pretty much anything that might be found offensive. To me it's insulting a reader's intelligence. To use an example I recently fixed from Ms. Fanservice:

• Parodied and subverted in The Boys where all the superheroes working for Vought American are turned into Ms. Fanservice as part of their image for merchandising. Takes a considerably darker turn when VA give Starlight a makeover consisting of high heels and a costume composed of about three grams of fabric due to them wanting her character to have been raped as a child and turn into a sex-crazed slut as a result. It doesn't go down well with her, especially when she reveals she was actually sexually assualted.

Note the "sex-crazed slut" pothole. What's the point of telling the reader this? I'm pretty sure most people can figure out for themselves that it's unfortunate to imply that being molested as a child will turn you into a slut.

"Did anybody invent this stuff on purpose?" - Phillip Marlowe on tequila, Finger Man by Raymond Chandler.

IMHO, the critique in this thread is a bit of Completely Missing The Point.

Unfortunate Implications is not a mere "uh, this might offend someone" disclaimer. It fills several purposes.

1. It's not about offense so much as about prejudice and stereotypes. Pointing out prejudice and stereotypes is worthwhile in itself, if someone is offended or not is beside the point.
2. The list is not just of what tropes have unfortunate implications, it's HOW they have it.
3. The disclaimer aspect of the Unfortunate Implications page is not a "this might offend someone" disclaimer as much as a "We know that this is a stereotype" disclaimer. Seriously, a lot of tvtropes pages would be a lot less Safe For Work without that disclaimer!

- What? You are browsing a page about black men being scary?
- No, I'm browsing a page about the stereotype that black men are scary. It's about pointing out prejudices in the media.

^This says it all.

It does not matter who I am. What matters is, who will you become? - motto of Omsk Bird

@Xzenu - you and others are starting to convince me that the page itself is not a bad thing. I'm not there yet, but I'm getting there. But I'm not convinced that a whole page is needed just to make it "safe for work" - what, if your boss is looking over your shoulder, you just say, "Hey, it's okay, look! There's blue text that links to another page that says Scary Black Man isn't a good thing! It's okay now, right?" Yes, the "disclaimer" about a trope implying bad things for a certain ethnicity, religion, gender, etc, is okay, but I just don't think we need a whole page on it.

Using it to pothole anything that could be an "unfortunate implication" - that I still think is bullshit. Here's another example from the main entry of Great Lakes Avengers:

- Ashley "Big Bertha" Crawford: The team's original source of funding, she's the greatest swimsuit model in all of Wisconsin. Her powers allow her to shape the fat on her body as she pleases (explaining her supermodeling), and the ability to add "superbulk" to her body, though she has to throw it up to get rid of it. Mutant.

Really? We really need the pothole to tell us that encouraging bulimia is bad? The whole character of Big Bertha is something of a joke - she's a supermodel who can control the fat content in her body, and gets rid of excess through vomiting. I'm pretty sure the creators knew what they were doing with that one.

edited 8th Sep '10 2:54:47 AM by Martello

"Did anybody invent this stuff on purpose?" - Phillip Marlowe on tequila, Finger Man by Raymond Chandler.

You can say that about almost any inline pothole.

A line about a girl's adroitness at constructing laser guns potholes to Mad Scientist. It's only common sense, but it's the sort of thing that makes wikis, and this wiki in particular different from books, or plain text.

edited 8th Sep '10 12:02:40 PM by Daremo

Creed of the Happy Pessimist:Always expect the worst. Then, when it happens, it was only what you expected. All else is a happy surprise.

Since when are we anti censorship? I thought we were just full of angry video game players, angry animation fans and angry Xenophiles that want their country's media to be more like whatever place is viewed as less restrictive.

No, this is not a building block writers look to when drafting a story, unfortunate implications are what happens as a result of releasing media. Since no one is omniscient, no one knows that their book about turning the ocean into boiling oil was going on shelves at the same time as a ruptured pipeline spewed oil into the Gulf Of Mexico during 100+ degree heat(Fahrenheit) boiling alive everything the people used for food and income along with the people unfortunate enough to get stuck in it.

Vogue may have known about about the propaganda posters. An employee might have a tasteless sense of humor or just hate Lebron James, but most likely, they just took a shot that happened to look like... we'd all like to think it was an accident but it happened.

---

On the other hand, if we cut unfortunat implications, I'd like to make a motion to cut every single trope page that has "Rape Is" in the title, as those also fall under unfortunate implications, are natter generators, and don't seem needed.

edited 8th Sep '10 12:27:40 PM by Cider

Modified Ura-nage, Torture Rack

^^I'm not talking about potholes in general. I'm saying that Unfortunate Implications is just thrown in to make people feel better when writing about "bad" tropes. Seems like you're missing the point intentionally.

^I couldn't agree with you more.

edited 8th Sep '10 12:26:22 PM by Martello

"Did anybody invent this stuff on purpose?" - Phillip Marlowe on tequila, Finger Man by Raymond Chandler.

What irritates me is that all Unfortunate Implications does is spray irritating "OH NO SUPPOSED RACISM" on portions of a story. Quite frankly, I'd like to see it example-only and stop sensitive people from spamming it over and over.

Half-Life: Dual Nature, a crossover story of reasonably sized proportions.

Rather, I don't load all your baggage onto a couple of words. It's just another pothole to me.

It points out when things can be perceived in a bad light. Your posts, Martello, reek of someone being overly sensitive to implied political correctness.

edited 8th Sep '10 3:10:15 PM by Daremo

Creed of the Happy Pessimist:Always expect the worst. Then, when it happens, it was only what you expected. All else is a happy surprise.

I don't know how some use it, but to me, it means "this could look very bad", not "this is racist".

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.

I think I remember seeing some bad potholes with this trope where it's shown that something has Unfortunate Implications but not really showing why or how. For the most part, I'm not sure if this is something that should be potholed.

Helpful Scripts and Stylesheets here.

It points out when things can be perceived in a bad light. Your posts reek of someone being overly sensitive to implied political correctness.

No, it gets irritating when someone starts trying to force their skewed opinions on something, or implies the creator's a racist/sexist/whateverist prick. Yes, we get it, Jar Jar Binks resembles old minstrelsy shows.

Half-Life: Dual Nature, a crossover story of reasonably sized proportions.

Um, if he does, then it's a legit use of the trope.

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.

Meant that for Martello, should have pointed that out.

But yes, that would be an exactly correct usage.

Creed of the Happy Pessimist:Always expect the worst. Then, when it happens, it was only what you expected. All else is a happy surprise.

Things can be offensive. Pointing them out is nothing to get this up in arms about. I think it's a useful because it lets the worse parts get highlighted without flaming them and without casting judgement on them. The rants about how we shouldn't categorize anything offensive in media just seem short sighted to me.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

If there are three dozen potholes to this trope on different pages referring to Jar-Jar, and 30 of them are in the context of how is actions seem like a minstrel show (even if not explicitly stated), then the use is generally correct. If there are 30 that use either just his name, or context that required another pothole (like The Scrappy), then the uses are not correct.

So again, misuse is what matters. Being used a lot is not, but correctly, is what's supposed to happen with a trope.

So verify it's the former, and you'll get a lot more headway.

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.