The Legend of Korra

Tenzin and... Pema? Was that her name?

Whatever it was it didn't feel forced and it was wonderfully out of focus. And that's really the best sort of romance I can ask for in a show about Kung Fu Jesus.

I agree that Korrasami never was all that convincing, with all their scenes together pre-finale easily being interpreted as them being Best Friends, and only the finale retroactively made them romantic moments.

As for bi representation, that is still better than what the T in LGBT gets, which is practically nothing at all.

Half of the fandom was pretty sure it was supposed to be a thing as early as the season 3 premiere. The last two seasons of the show were divided in a huge Shipping War between Korrasami and Makorra shippers, both of whom were entirely convinced that the show was leaning towards their preferred ship.

I remember those shipping wars vividly, and they've always made it difficult for me to grasp claims that Korrasami had no build-up and was just thrown in at the last second.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Dec 28th 2018 at 7:55:11 AM

What's the most notable T representation in media? The Rocky Horror Picture Show or any instance of gender-bending magic/tech. Never any actual realistic representation.

Shipping Wars doesn't really convince me that there was actual evidence. I think that's just Shipping Goggles. I didn't think of Korra and Asami having any romantic potential until Asami complimented Korra's new hairstyle in Book 4.

Up until then most of their interactions were either opposed at worst and platonic at best.

Edited by Soble on Dec 28th 2018 at 7:09:00 AM

I didn't even think of them having shipping potential till after it was confirmed as canon. Just thought they were Heterosexual Life-Partners, and I thought it was quite refreshing to see a fantasy series like this end with no true romance. Until suddenly it didn't.

It's not Shipping Goggles if it's build-up to a canon romance. That argument is trying to have its cake and eat it. "There was NO EVIDENCE except for ALL THE EVIDENCE that WAS NOT EVIDENCE because I said so."

You didn't see it. But others did, so you can't say that there was nothing there.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Dec 28th 2018 at 8:12:47 AM

We can because of the Rule of Perception. If you thought you saw subtext, cool. If you didn't see anything romantic about it, also cool. Until something is made canon, the only people who can be right about a character being in love with another is the author.

Edited by VeryMelon on Dec 28th 2018 at 10:30:27 AM

And since the authors did make it canon, retroactively it is build up.

Its like how in a good murder mystery there's a moment where all the clues click together except with Korra writing only to Asami out of all her friends. Instead of the butler's boots being caked with mud and blood signalling that he was the first one to find the body but lied about it which means that the secret heir locked in the attic is the murderer and the butler was trying to protect the family's name.

Exactly. Honestly, dismissing the clues that tons of people did notice as not really being there just feels like we are still, years after Korrasami became an Official Couple, trying to proclaim Korrasami fans to be lunatic shippers who don't know what they're talking about.

"It came out of nowhere" is the new "It's obviously not canon and it never will be."

Edited by TobiasDrake on Dec 28th 2018 at 8:26:15 AM

First off, you can make anything look like foreshadowing retroactively. All that really means is you had some pieces lied down and found a way to make them interesting later.

Second, no one here ever denied Korrasami became canon. I really didn't think I needed to amend the last sentence in my other post to say so. The contention was how well written its execution and inclusion was, which includes scrutiny over any perceived foreshadowing to it being planned in advanced. And from there, we go back to the Rule of Perception.

(x7) There's a lot of trans representation in media... Just not Western Animation. The only example I know of in western children's animation is Stevonnie from Steven Universe and, honestly, I have a hard time considering Stevonnie their own character. They seem too much like Steven and Connie playing around, not an actual individual character. But that's not Korra related.

The best romance in the franchise for me is Sokka and Suki. They're cute together and were perfectly fine the entire series. That's what makes Suki's lack of recognition in TLOK so bitter. Has she even been mentioned anywhere? She just dropped off the face of the earth.

Well:

• I probably wouldn't see the potential for a queer romance because it's not something I actively look for
• I can't say what other people thought when they watched something, or speak for the fanbase
• Bisexuality is a thing, so Korra doesn't have to immediately connect with Asami to have romantic build-up. Maybe some people see it that way.

But:

• I've seen enough works with queer characters and themes that I don't think I'm particularly conditioned to ignore gay subtext
• We all know that Nick probably wouldn't have allowed Korra and Asami to be a couple on screen - so the idea that it had any build-up in the earlier seasons seems iffy to me
• LOK was only meant to last a season, so Asami and Korra's characterizations in Book 1 were "locked in," based on a version of the story that was almost the final version of said story, and probably wouldn't have hinted at anything romantic given that Korra and Mako were the more obvious couple

And I don't think looking at a Relationship Upgrade retroactively really disproves any of that.

Edited by Soble on Dec 28th 2018 at 7:48:27 AM

All of the romances in TLOK were awful. By the standards set by Mako/Korra and Bolin/Opal, Korra/Asami had fine enough chemistry.

...I thought Bolin/Opal was ok...

Under-developed and kind of "bleh" in Book 4, but cute in Book 3.

Edited by Soble on Dec 28th 2018 at 8:17:14 AM

For the first two seasons of LOK, I don't think the writers were going for Korrasami as endgame. But with season three and Korra and Asami having their own side adventures, I definitely think they were all, "Wait, can we actually do this?" And then in season four, they definitely included moments that were supposed to be seen as "They like each other in way that is more romantic" (i.e. the moment where Asami compliments Korra's new haircut and Korra blushes).

It's just that the writers assumed that Nick wouldn't let them actually get away with anything other than subtle moments like that, so only asked if they could do it at the very end. And while Nick agreed, remember, there were also restrictions — they couldn't show them kissing in the end, only looking into each other's eyes.

Edited by alliterator on Dec 28th 2018 at 8:23:04 AM

There are a whole bunch of tiny Ship Tease moments in the last two seasons that shippers occasionally brought up as jokes—like when Asami first showed up in season 3 by doing a random badass pose in a doorway, people jokingly acted like this was hard proof that she was in love with Korra. Looking back, she probably was trying to show off.

There are a whole bunch of those, moments so small even the die-hards barely considered them worth mentioning.

With hindsight I think the writers were planning for Korrasami since season 3. There are a decent amount of hints. Everyone just brushed them off because nobody actually expected them to go through with it.

I remember pulling the biggest :O ever in that last moment of that last episode.

My first response was to go on every social media platform I'd ever held and account on and broadcast "AND THEN KORRASAMI WAS CANON"

This is gonna be long and messy. First, lets get my feelings on Legend Of Korra out of the way before I begin.

I HATE Legend Of Korra.

I was super excited when it got announced, but the show itself did so much I disliked that their legit improvement in seasons 3 and 4 just wasn't enough to salvage my feelings on the whole thing.

Before we start, I want to put forth that I had a preferred couple I would've loved to see happen from the synopsis and character reveals at cons way before the show premiered.

Bolin and Asami. Their character design and the descriptions of both characters in all promotional material spoke to me of amazing romantic potential.

Alas, it was never meant to be. In fact, the creators were actively against it. It lives in my dreams I guess.

Now, onto the shipping landscape of LOK.

I don't like Mako. The character, both from a characterization and design standpoint, is built of tropes I don't like.

When Season 1 started, I could immediately see the teasing of Makorra, and I could get behind it. It would never become a favourite, but I could let it sail (and maybe there was a chance for Bosami if this worked).

Borra I thought was cute. More up my alley than Makorra. Still not the one I rooted for.

Enter Asami and Masami. I LOVED Asami as a character. The ship, it involves yet more tropes I'm not a fan of and my least favourite Krew member by a wide margin.

The first sign of trouble. A goddamn love rectangle. I dislike love triangle plots to begin with, add more corners and you got a recipe for disaster.

At this point I was pro Borra and Masami, because while the later wasn't what I wanted, the relationship mess that would result from them pushing Makorra would destroy an aspect of my enjoyment of the series.

Lo and Behold, they pushed Makorra and I hated every single minute on screen all the way to the finale.

Mako became the scrappy, Asami a woobie, Bolin was completely destroyed as a character as the season went on in all fronts, and Korra was just there I guess.

Then in season 2, where I was thinking of ways Bosami could be salvaged in rebound, despite being aware the creators didn't want to pursue such ship, and Boleska being an intriguing potential ship.

In this season, Korra was at her worst characterization-wise, Mako continued to irritate me with his mere existance.

Asami was just there being thrown around plots without much to do, a disservice to my favourite character in the Krew.

They dared to have her crawl back to Mako in the rebound of Korra's amnesia, for god sake! God I hate this season so goddamn much!

And Bolin flip-flopped between being hillarious and the dumbest character in the entire franchise, uncertain if they could salvage anything from who he was supposed to be originally, stuck in the biggest do-not-want ship in the franchise.

At the end, a light in the tunnel. They sank both Makorra and Masami. Thank God!

Come season 3, Bolin meets Opal, which is the cutest thing ever, maybe Varrick and Zhu Li have potential. I could live with this state of affairs for an endgame.

Now, here's the thing. All the way back to season 1, I thought Korra and Asami had real potential for a strong bond so long as Mako was nowhere near them, and the fandom did a good job of selling me Korrasami, although I never believed it had a chance of happening.

Now, season 3 did a really good of taking advantage of the Krew status quo and building up said bond. I was on board.

By season 4, I legit saw teases in favor of Korrasami in the writing. And when the final episode aired, I thought they did pull it off.

Korrasami, which became a favourite through fandom, was canon. Bopal got thrown through the ringer in that last season, and to be honest I feel they never quite rebuilt it the way I wanted them to be, but it was still a sea worthy ship by my standards. And Varrick and Zhu Li were really cute and it was nice to see them get the last episodes dedicated to them.

So in the end, I can say that on the shipping front, as rocky as the ride was, they ships that sailed were all ships I could support, and LOK was successful.

Problem was, it was the only thing I felt worked out in the end.

Everything else in the series was imo a misstep and I could never get over what they decided to do with my three favourite members of the Gaang (Aang, Katara and Suki) in this sequel.

Three positives in a sea of negatives don't mean much in the end.

Ship wars existing and the ship actually being present in the text are two completely different things. Especially since "the two most prominent female characters" is always going to be a popular ship.

Given how intently the show was pulling its Love Triangle in the earlier seasons, I took it as the the creators of the series making the ship a thing in response to its large fanbase, rather than the fanbase actually seeing a relationship that was there before it became explicit.

Shippers can see ships in anything. That doesn't mean they're actually seeing things - nor does it mean that, if they're eventually validated, they were originally right in the first place.

Hell, to give an example, one of the biggest ships in the Harry Potter fanbase (Neville / Luna) comes from two characters who only had, like, a single shared dialogue within the entire story. This ship eventually got bones thrown at it in the film series, but that doesn't retroactively mean all the "evidence" people invented for its existence was there all along. It means the writers were aware it was popular and wanted to acknowledge it.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Dec 28th 2018 at 10:23:14 AM

I've been a Korrasami fanatic since Asami's concept art was shown off and not even I thought the series would seriously end on it.

I thought the scene with Korra blushing at Asami's compliment was either Les Yay (Korra's blush was from embarrassment/happiness) or Homoerotic Subtext that won't go anywhere (they were throwing shippers a bone). Unlike most Korrasami fans, I didn't take Asami's talk with Korra at the end of Book 3 to be romantic; it seemed too vague and could have easily been platonic.

My imagined Best Ending for the series was that it'd end on No Romantic Resolution: no Makorra, no Masami. Even until the very end of the final episode where Korra and Asami talked, I thought it was just a final bone thrown at shippers. That the series would end up an ambiguous note where you could easily see Makorra or Korrasami happening... but, nope, they actually went full Korrasami. It came out of left field for me because same-gender couples were all but nonexistent at the time in American cartoons.

I’m going to take an extra step and say that if the private interactions between Korra and Asami in books 3 & 4 had instead been between a woman and a man, they probably would’ve all been seen universally as unambiguous evidence of a building romance.

I second that statement. I was never invested in Korrasami because of the aforementioned reasons, but I still saw hints to it, specially in the fourth season.

When they canonized it, I was surprised more because they went there, not because of a lack of build up.