Persona series

Quick question.

What are the usual odds for a follow up attack to occur when you knock an enemy down? It doesn't seem to happen that often, though it's awesome when it does (particularly with Chie's Galactic Punt), so I'm wondering if there's like a percentage chance of it occurring or something.

edited 2nd Jul '09 6:19:40 AM by Basarin

Galactic Punt is ten kinds of awesome (and it's even technically feasible in real life! Obviously without the "kicking folks into the stratosphere" bit, but the move itself is an overexaggerated step that sends her into a straight back kick. We learned the reverse of it- a step that takes you into a rear leg side kick- in my karate class a few weeks ago, and I was secretly flipping out going "Dude! I can do the Galactic Punt now! Awesome!") but I feel like all the followup moves had a massive drop in the frequency of their occurance around the end of Void Quest.

And with regards to stacking, I read in a guide that Wind/Elec/Fire/Ice Amp and Boost skills stack for a net 75% increase, correct?

Yeah, the Amp and Boost effects all stack. And you can get pseudo-stacking on some effects, too. Like you can cast Tarukaja on a person, have them use Power Charge, and they'll do ridiculous physical damage, but only for one turn.

EDIT: Slight clarification.

edited 2nd Jul '09 7:08:24 AM by Theoneknownasme

Excellent. Just a few more levels before Yosuke becomes an absolute beast.

Yeah, it's a lot of fun. Boost + Amp + Tarukaja + Mind Charge + enemy weak to element = extreme overkill.

There Is No Kill Like Overkill.

edited 2nd Jul '09 7:38:12 AM by Rogue 7

With SP costs in this game? Yes, there is such a thing as overkill.

I've taken to keeping the basic Agi/Garu/Bufu spells as a "poke" ability, to check if an enemy is weak against a particular element.

I can't justify wasting that slot for my teammates when there's so many better moves to be had. So I try to only keep the most advanced moves and keep the other skills.

As far as SP goes, when in doubt, chug down on those sodas! Especially at the vending machine next to the liquor store in the north part of the shopping district. If you manage to win the prize, you get like five free cans of soda (which all restore 10 SP it seems). Not quite a snuff soul, but still good in a pinch.

And agreed. Galactic Punt = win. Double points for turning the enemy into A Twinkle in the Sky. (and double points for Rogue7 if he's ever justified in using it on somone) Still, they drop in frequency as you keep going? Huh. Ah well, at least nothing stops the massive dustcloud sequences after you knock all your enemies down.

edited 2nd Jul '09 8:37:15 AM by Basarin

It works, too (at least, the side kick version. A back kick'd be a lot trickier to pull off, but worth it for the misdirection if you've done the side kick a few times). I haven't had a chance to actually use it in a spar, but the principle is very sound. It looks like you're making just a cheat step in to close distance, with possibly a couple of punches tacked on for a distraction/flinch, and the kick comes like a ton of bricks, very fast. To pull it off, you've got to be picture-perfect with your foot placement and weight transfer, because ideally your two feet aren't on the ground at the same time. The moment your cheat step touches down you shift your weight onto it and launch the kick, full-speed.

And Dkellis mentioned earlier how he thought real martial artists might have a problem with Chie bouncing around...I can't count the number of times I've heard our senseis tell us to get down into "Kangaroo style", which is exactly what it sounds like. We don't do it to the extent that Chie does (you bounce up and down on your heels, mostly), but there are several advantages- it helps to develop a rhythm and flow in the fight, prevents you from getting bogged down and stuck in one spot, and can force the other guy to fight on your rhythm. If you can be aware of that, you can change the tempo of how you're fighting and completely blindside him while he's still on your timing. Chie's bouncing isn't really feasible for throwing kicks since her weight is shifting a bit too much, but I'll jump up and down like that a bit to loosen up on occasion.

Yeah, it was the bouncing from side to side thing which seemed unrealistic. She seems to be putting a lot more effort into just shifting her weight around, which is probably useful for training up her endurance and leg strength, but a bit out of place in the middle of battle.

But still, it's just so fascinating to watch.

EDIT: Random: I keep thinking that the various books you can read on the sofa are references to something. The Witch Detective books are Twilight references, apparently, but I get the feeling that the Timid Teacher books are also a reference to something I've seen before.

edited 2nd Jul '09 9:55:35 AM by dkellis

Huh. Nice bit to know if I ever take up martial arts again (used to be a brown belt in Tae Kwon Do, but has forgotten pretty much everything).

Seeing as how you all are probably ahead of me, what level would you suggest I be at when I hit the dungeon after Rise's? I'm around 37-ish after clearing it, with the rest of the party members about one or two levels behind the MC.

I remember being about level 38 after clearing Rise's dungeon for the first time, and a few more levels above that after the revisit to beat down the bonus boss. I'm playing on Beginner, though, so I don't know if I'm underestimating the enemies.

I think I was in the high forties when I beat it. Personas were primarily Black Frost, Dis, and...Parvati, I think.

I pulled that extreme combo- minus the "enemy weak" part with a Surt with something like a 68 in magic and Ragnarok. Did 1700+ damage to the bonus boss of Heaven. The Norse god personas are beasts. I'm just waiting until I hit 77 and can fuse Odin, plus leveling up Loki where he learns Nifelheim. I haven't looked at what Odin gets, but between Thor, Surt, and Loki, I'll have 3/4 elements dealing severe damage, all of which at least have Amp. Couple that with the Chakra ring, and I'm good to go.

On the very last day of the game.

Spoilers for the Sort-of True Villain: I admit that I've been uncharacteristically avoiding spoilers for this game (the walkthroughs are surprisingly nice about this), and during the "guess who?" sequence picked wrongly the first time. (Luckily we get more than one try.) I honestly pegged Adachi as the Spanner in the Works sort, who would have arrested the Persona squad due to some hilarious-in-hindsight misunderstanding. That was the first major plot surprise the game sprang on me.

The second one was the true identity of the gas station attendant. I always figured that there was something off about them, possibly because I kept checking back whenever "he" was there at the gas station, since I remember the very first day of the game when "he" offered a part-time job. I thought it was another Social Link opportunity, or failing that extra cash. The lack of any job offer from that direction puzzled me, as did the attendant's habit of standing in the rain, and only in the rain, without an umbrella. Realizing that "he" was actually a "she" (sort of) was a major surprise.

On a non-spoilery note, I'm a little disappointed that my careful maintenance of Yukiko as my one and only girlfriend led to exactly jack, all the way until near the end of the game. Throughout the rest of the game, none of the other characters acknowledged it, including Yukiko herself. Only the game seemed to keep track of it, by allowing me to spend more time with her (for no benefit other than roleplaying) and reminding me of it every time I hit a high rank with another female Social Link (of my age).

Currently at level 79. Time to grind.

Dammit, how'd you manage to get ahead of me?! I'm still pursuing the real killer!

But yeah, the lack of social link integration is the only thing that's really lacking in the game, but given the sheer number and combinations of social links in the game, coupled with different levels, it'd be quite hard to pull that off (but, Atlus, if you could do that for Persona 5...well, lemme just say...dood.) I did the same thing you did (only going after Yukiko, though Naoto is damn tempting) and it made me feel like a heel a few times (maxing Yumi's link, a few times during Rise's), but...I've really been into roleplaying this game out, and in that sense, I'm having a lot of fun.

It helps that I've found that, in Persona 4, I talk to the TV like no other game before. Perhaps because I tend to play it alone up in my room late at night, so no one else is around, but I will vocalize all my strategies for battles, complete with encouragement for my other characters when they get a lucky hit in and whatnot, not to mention a running commentary, in-and-out of character during the cutscenes. For example, in the Magatsu Mandala, when You-know-who was lecturing the party about how "Well, you're really just doing this because you're bored, that means you're not really any different from me!", I practically shouted at the TV "We don't kill people, you dimwit!" Stuff like that. Thus, I've been able to keep up a sort of roleplaying facade for this game that's helped maintain the illusion that I'm actually getting more out of dating one girl than I normally would.

Glad to know I wasn't the only one doing that, Rogue 7. I think that's why I liked P4 so much more than P3; it was so much easier to actually get into the game and actually feel like the main character.

What, the roleplaying, or the constant shouting at the TV?

Yes.

EDIT to be less flippant: The roleplaying part, mostly. I always yell at my games.

edited 6th Jul '09 8:11:30 AM by Theoneknownasme

In all, I maxed out most of the links, except for Hanged Man and Moon, which were left at a measly rank one each. The Sports club was football/soccer, the Culture club was the band. Next go-round I'll try the other options.

Girlfriend-wise, I still think Yukiko would be the one I'd go for in Real Life, but I don't know what the Main Character would prefer. Naoto seems like the sort who'd take the MC leaving Inaba after a year very badly (I know she doesn't actually have a severe problem with it in the end), and I picture the MC as being close friends, but just friends with her, like the "assistant detective" role of the rank 10 social link. Chie is a possibility, but she honestly seems to be a better fit for Yosuke. Rise is also another possibility, but for some reason she just doesn't "click" as well as Yukiko would.

Although with how often Kanji turns up with Rise (as Naoto joins the crew quite late), I wonder what a Kanji/Rise pairing would look like.

Ayane, the Sun social link for the band route, seems to have a little too much hero worship for the MC for it to be a healthy relationship. I did feel like trash when I had to subtly turn down her confession, though; this was one reason why I wanted the other characters to acknowledge that I already had a girlfriend (as the game help text keeps insisting), so they won't keep throwing themselves at me. The MC's taken, girls.

I think I actually identified with the P3 MC more than the P4 one. I'm still not sure why.

Currently still on level one of the Very Definitely Final Dungeon. There's a weird loop of two spawn points where once I beat down the first, the second respawns, and vice versa. (Not sure if this will hold true when I get back to the game tomorrow.) I levelled from 80 to 81 before I realized.

Questions: I assume that like in P3, it's the items I get during the max Social Link events which allow me to fuse the ultimate Personae. However, do I get any such items for the Fool, Star, and Judgement social links? I've already fused Loki (ultimate Fool, although probably not with the best mix of powers), but I think I'm under-levelled for Star's Helel and Judgement's Lucifer.

edited 6th Jul '09 8:25:29 AM by dkellis

What one was Hanged Man again? I've forgotten. Naoki?

And yeah, definitely go with the other options for your second playthrough. Those are definitely the ones I prefer, personally. And see if you can max out the ones you missed; they get better after the first few ranks.

And yeah, enemies respawn a lot more in the final dungeon. And it never ends.

EDIT: You don't actually need the items to fuse the Personae. They're really more "proof that you did this" than anything else.

edited 6th Jul '09 8:26:28 AM by Theoneknownasme

Don't worry about being under leveled, it is insanely easy to grind on the final floors of the final dungeons, thanks to the breeze skills restoring your HP/SP more than you use it and ability to turn in materials without leaving the TV.

It's easiest to grind in Magatsu Mandala, if you use the Pringles-kings.

edited 6th Jul '09 8:32:21 AM by Theoneknownasme

Wait, so if I don't fuse the ultimate Personae this run-through, in New Game Plus I have to max out the Social Links again in order to gain access to it?

EDIT: To make things clearer: right now I have not fused Lucifer yet, because I am not at a high enough level. Lucifer is the ultimate Persona of the Judgement arcana. I did not receive any items from the max-out event. If I don't fuse a Lucifer, and start a New Game Plus, do I have to wait until I max out Judgement again before I can fuse it?

Or take the Justice arcana: the ultimate Persona is Sraosha, and when I max the Justice Social Link, I get the "Family Picture" key item. Now, assume I never fused a Sraosha, and I go to a New Game Plus: I know I keep the "Family Picture" key item. Can I fuse a Sraosha (assuming I have the necessary character level) without maxing the Justice Social Link?

edited 6th Jul '09 8:53:38 AM by dkellis