Lost in Space
I agree that Trope Namers don't justify awkward titles. But I'd swear we have something akin to Pupil Turned Evil already, under the Face–Heel Turn collection.
edited 12th Aug '10 11:56:10 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Planescape Hijack
Well, I know we have Deceptive Disciple, but that's cases where they were always secretly evil (which I think is distinct enough for the split). I don't think we have anything else that covers this, but I could be wrong.
Productivity is for people without internet connections. -Count Dorku
Lost in Space
Hmm, yeah, just went through the Heel/Face Index and Betrayal Tropes, and this is sufficiently unique, just with an awkward name. Swap with redirect, sure.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Dreams of Revenge
Urgh! What a horribly clunky name. Switch with the redirect.
Locking you up on radar since '09
The Other Troper
As long as A New Hope is still the trope namer.
I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
Planescape Hijack
Done. A New Hope still gets its rightful credit. (If a convincing argument appears, I guess it can be reverted, but I can't imagine it.)
Productivity is for people without internet connections. -Count Dorku
For the record, you're supposed to give it time to generate discussion before you just go ahead and make the change.
The Other Troper
^ This. While I'm not against this, you jumped the gun, Haven. I'm reverting it for now.
I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
I can summarise the discussion, as I think it will go.
"Name is clunky, switch with redirect".
The Other Troper
But the point is that there might be some arguments coming later, and we should wait to give others there fair share. You can't just assume the argument will go one way just because the first few comments did. I've seen too many threads go the other way to accept that assumption.
I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
Yes, but I cannot see anyone defending this trope name when the alternative is so superior.
Then again, this view is a tad myopic, is it not?
^ There is also the possibility that a better name will come up later. If we're going to change the name, best do the best we can.
Helpful Scripts and Stylesheets here.
To hijack a quote from Men In Black, Fifteen hundred years ago, everybody knew that the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew that the Earth was flat. At this very moment you know that the rename won't be contested.
Bibliophile.
I contest the renaming of this trope. It works for me. We have worse titles.
Also, it is very descriptive.
Never be without a Hat! Hot means heat. I don't care if your usage dates to 1300, it's my word, not yours. My Pm box is open.
Definitely rename, switch with redirect makes the most sense in that the name is already being used, and, well, Pupil Turned Evil just makes the most sense as the name for this trope.
Planescape Hijack
^^ I don't think it's true we have worse titles, but if we do, that means they should be renamed too. The only one I can think of that's similar is A Form You Are Comfortable With, but all the words in there contribute to the meaning of the title—for instance, if it were cut down to "A Comfortable Form", it sounds more like it's something for the shapeshifting creature's convenience. "A Pupil of Mine Until He Turned To Evil"—everything in there save "Pupil Turned Evil" is just superfluous.
Productivity is for people without internet connections. -Count Dorku
Planescape Hijack
Bamp.
While I did jump the gun initially, I think it wouldn't be unreasonable to change this soon, maybe in 24 hours or so.
Productivity is for people without internet connections. -Count Dorku
That's fine to change, I would say. As long as the quote is on the page somewhere.
The Other Troper
Let's make a crowner first, just to be sure.
I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
Planescape Hijack
I don't think a crowner is really necessary. With the exception of one "I don't like this rename" post, we have a consensus here. Additionally, as Twilightdusk said, it would take a major paradigm shift—specifically, away from "clear and concise" being the standard for titles, and away from redirects being preferred for renames—for a good reason not to change the name to Pupil Turned Evil to arise.
Productivity is for people without internet connections. -Count Dorku
Bibliophile.
A crowner would be irrelevant. "Changes should be made by the quality of the arguments both ways, not the quantity." That's Tzetze's words, not mine.
edited 20th Aug '10 12:14:27 PM by AlirozTheConfused
Never be without a Hat! Hot means heat. I don't care if your usage dates to 1300, it's my word, not yours. My Pm box is open.
The Other Troper
Crowners can't be shot down by "I don't think that's how it should work". That is an argument against all of them, not just this case.
I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
Bibliophile.
The phrase, "I don't think that's how it should work" is very overused on TV Tropes. If only there was some way that was immune to IDTTHISW, that didn't depend on majority opinion.
Never be without a Hat! Hot means heat. I don't care if your usage dates to 1300, it's my word, not yours. My Pm box is open.
The Other Troper
But that is what you did with the crowner suggestion here.
I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
Crown Description:
Vote up for yes, down for no.
I don't see any reason not to replace this with its redirect, Pupil Turned Evil. It mirrors Rival Turned Evil, and that precedent seems to make it clear that we don't need to specify it was a pupil to of the characters. I know it's a Star Wars shout out, but it's not one that's particularly well-known, so it doesn't have the pleasant twinge of recognition—and even if it does to someone, I don't think that offsets the incredible clunkiness of it.
Productivity is for people without internet connections. -Count Dorku