>Start thread for MS Paint Adventures

Never thought I would start a debate with my elemental analysis. If anything, I totally agree with Meta. Not sure about the rest, but I don't think the sprites² are the ultimate being. They might become the Prime self over time, but they certainly aren't it right now, a few minutes after getting created. They probably need time for that too, even if most likely less time than regular players.

Any idea when/if MSPA Forums will come back?

Well, yeah, there's still more than enough room for HIC to take Jade over. I was just responding to people seemed to assume that Jade would automatically get taken over as soon as she woke up and pointing out that it wasn't automatic. I'm kinda surprised Jade hasn't been controlled yet.

Also: I thought of another argument for why I don't see the sprite^2 as the ultimate selves yet: they can't fill that role because they're completely fused. I.e. Davepeta can't be Dave or Nepeta's ultimate selves because Dave's "ultimate self" isn't part Nepeta, and vice-versa. If we ever do see those transcendent versions, I don't think they would be combined with other persons.

Well, with Optimusjamie here, we still need Count Dorku, and Butterfinger (and Karkat the Dalek, but I expect them to come back). Then we can truly be the trash thread we were meant to be.

On Hiveswap

It still hurts. I want Hiveswap to be good so much, but the kickstarter was 3 years ago. Most games come out in that timeframe.

I suppose the good side is that most games that are sidetracked on development this far from the Kickstarter usually never see the light of day, but it's clear that progress is being made on Hiveswap, but it's still annoying.

How many more days of updates before the mini-pause?

savage

Two.

I am getting nervous. After that it will be a flash and the 40 pages before Act 7. Since Act 7 is an epilogue, that means every thing will wrap up on these few pages we have left. I am nervous.

@Odder: Yeah, the production raises a lot of ominous signs, but like with Homestuck, I trust Hussie to come out with a fully functioning product. We may debate its quality, but it will be done.

I don't know how you could really well-express a timeless, transcendent self, with a single consciousness in a mundane body, even if it's a seizure-inducing sprite-with-legs body, no.

That's uh.

Kinda the problem?

It's like, one's ultimate self is a timeless entity, but experiences are apparently an important part of it; so, it's the ultimate Dave, such that an amalgamate gestalt of various Daves with various experiences approaches it as the number of Daves approaches infinity,

Like, the limit of a function at infinity is this transcendent Dave.

But, I don't know, the portrayal is still... still not very coherent.

They say that the distinction of individuals from this ultimate self is the partition of memory and experience, and that they lack this,

But even without the point about that logically making them a thing that they manifestly aren't (ergo, contradiction), most of the time, they don't act like they lack that distinction?

Like, Jasprosesprite^2 mostly acts like the [S] GAME OVER. timeline Rose, until it's relevant to act like another. Likewise, just, look at Davepeta's conversation with Jade; they're acting like that one specific Davesprite for a while, only bringing up, well, token references to the fact that they're more of them.

It's, blegh. I think I'm done talking about this thing that hasn't made sense to me from the first and still doesn't, that apparently makes sense to everyone else. I can't properly put my thoughts on it, it just, feels like I'm the only one who's grasping a particular contradiction; whether it's just, actually not a contradiction, or if I'm just the only one who's cared about it, I can't tell as much.

Anyways, things I would imagine covered in pages I skipped because I was gone for a day and there were like, ten of them:

I'm glad Jade's awake, that's gonna be fun.

I wonder what exactly is going to happen to The Green Sun, and if Alt Callie thinks she's going to do it?

She was wrong about when Jade would wake up, or was lying for a reason I can't quite fathom?

Dorku is here, just lurking and using the IHT as an excuse for more blood orgies.

I think Karkat posted the other day.

Hey what if we get a noob who decided to start reading HS on the day it ends? Who knows, people hear of things any day. What are the odds for this happening?

@In Odder Way

Most games don't have their budget stolen in the middle of the development.

Undertale took over two years to make and a good fraction of the game was ready before the kickstarter.

Even without the behind the scenes screwery, its probably the Hiveswap would still be in production.

It has more complex graphical majiggers.

Also, its weird that someone is saying that on tumblr about tumblr.

edited 31st Mar '16 2:27:44 PM by Bocaj

"its weird that someone is saying that on tumblr about tumblr."

What's that in reference to? The comic about metal gear?

Complaining about Tumblr on Tumblr is as popular as complaining about Reddit on Reddit and about 4chan on 4chan. We should probably get in on that action.

Many people suspect that the company assigned to the production of Hiveswap bailed with the money so they could make the recent King's Quest games. Mostly because of how quickly they were able to procure the funding.

wow fuck tvtropes, i mean look at.. the, uh, loading times?

it's been pretty confirmed by a tumblr user. the post revealing it has since been taken down, but you can find screenshots of the post around.

Just saw the upd8. That was probably the best question ever. Of all time. Just hope Jade doesn't fuck things up.

Yeah but, if you complain about TvTropes on TvTropes you get banned.

The above pot hole was not at all an attempt at getting away with aforesaid suppressed sedition by pretending it was for humorous effect.

Neither was that one.

@Ninety: I realize that, but how did it pop up in this conversation?

I would complain about tvtropes, if i was at all one of those heathens that didn't appreciate the careful watch that our mod overlords provide us.

To be honest, thinking of the whole transcendental self thing... it's more or less what we're experiencing in the comic itself, isn't it? The Karkat we followed for three years on the Meteor was the "wrong" Karkat, and he's not around anymore, but so much of what makes Karkat Karkat - from [S] Mental Breakdown to penis Ouija to Can Town to speaker crab - is still inexplicably and ineffably Karkat. The Alpha Karkat we're following now never did any of those things, at least not the way they happened in the comic itself, but he's still Karkat, and the things he does and the way he does them are just another facet of Karkat...ness. Maybe slightly different, but still Karkat.

It's the same with fandom A Us and fancomics and so on. We don't need the context of the characters to be exactly the same as in the comic itself to read Terezi as Terezi or John as John, and apply little bits and pieces of fan characterization or fanon voices to them to build up our images of them. Imagining what a character would do or say in X situation also draws on that "transcendental self". It's nothing as fancy as them becoming thousand-minded Equius amalgamates that are the essence of sweat and horse dong; it's just coming closer and closer to a fully realized vision of who they are as people.

Ooh, I like that way of looking at it.

, Red.

Yeah, uh, the amalgamation thing was just an approximation of it? At infinity it becomes synonymous, but that's uh,

Because the amalgam at infinity is just, a way of stating that this is what this person truly is, who they are, and what makes them them, independent of individual circumstance; you take that ideal of Karkat-ness, Karkatitude, Karkatity, (I vote to name it Karkitty) and apply it to circumstances to see what Karkat would do there, what he'd be like there,

But to represent that timeless ideal, you either need it completely separate from any circumstances, or see what there is after applying the sum of all possible circumstances.

Hence, why I called it the limit of the function at infinity; also, another thing is the limit of that function at zero; but, considering the whole, Thelemaic, True Will thing, going on with Homestuck, I think they would be the same thing?

These aren't what that thing is, exactly, just, ways of arriving at it?

Short version: Yeah, I agree; I was just talking about it in another way because that was what had been relevant to the argument, and this imagery is how I've personally grokked it.

edited 31st Mar '16 3:20:43 PM by RaichuKFM

Yeah, that makes sense. I don't think the sprites "are" the true selves, because honestly I'm not sure it's possible to be the true selves without something funky like a Prime, superpowered-Heart-multiverse-fusion going on; but the sprites have seen themselves in more situations and more contexts than most, and thus have a better idea of the shape of that true self.

It's like... you know how people say 'oh man, I don't know what I'd do if I was trapped in an avalanche' or something like that? The sprites have memories from quite a lot of scenarios that are probably just hypotheticals to the vast majority of Nepetas out there - but not all of them, so they do know what they'd do.