To be a Master
Mythical Pokémon are generally considered to be less powerful than True Legendaries but honestly, the only thing distinguishing them from other Legendaries is literally the fact that they are unobtainable except in an event (or in Deoxys' case, in a remake post-game event which doesn't change the fact it was once unobtainable except in an event). That's why they are known as the "illusion Pokémon."
In retrospect, Ash has caught much rarer Pokémon than Goh by virtual of Meltan being considered a Mythical. He was already breaking the boundaries and honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Mewtwo choose him to be his trainer in the event that Giovanni and Ash were to ever clash in the battle of a century.
Only if Giovanni has MechaMew2 from Pokémon Live! :P
The Protomen enhanced my life.
Gently wrap up this world like the night sky.
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
The link is incomplete.
Edit: Dammit! You fixed it right as I wrote that!
Edited by HandsomeRob on Feb 7th 2021 at 1:01:39 PM
One Strip! One Strip!
Honestly, the hatred against Goh and Suicine feels really asinine. Apparently this and Ash catching Melmetal is somehow breaking the rules of Pokemon worldbuilding to the point people are now saying this will make them drop the Pokemon anime. Fandoms are stupid.
- If I can watch literally every Pokemon movie where Ash teams up with a Legendary.
- Watch humans in these movies subjugate a Latios, Giratina, and Zoaoark.
- Play Pokemon games where I can catch Legendaries.
- Watch Pokemon Hunter J capture the Lake Trio and come close to dropping Regigigas while freezing the Regis in permanent stone.
- I know the Frontier Brains in Brandon and Noland are an outliner, but at the same time, they can work with legendaries and train them in battles, and with Goh catching Suicine and letting it out of it's Poke ball allows it to do it's job around the world and now other trainers can't catch it, so their situations aren't dissimilar.
I mean you got takes like this claiming that Goh is a Mary Sue even though his plan to try and save Suicine came with numerous flaws and his attempts to out type the hunters got outthrawted and only won once Suicine felt Goh earned it's respect.
If we're talking about tradition, by pre Black and White standards, this Sobble and Inteleon episode should've had Sobble evolve. Glad it finally got an episode, and Darmanitan can piss off for being such a dick. I really want to see it's evasive Glass Cannon style more so glad it was able to make some progress. They weren't even hiding Inteleon is based off James Bond.
If the dub doesn't call the episode Mission Impo-Sobble, I'mma riot.
To be a Master
Eh, the moment that Ash becomes League Champion, anything is possible in my books (except for Team Rocket successfully capturing Pikachu and delivering him to the Boss). And Journeys really loves to play up that infinite possibility. I mean, Ash has gotten a Dragonite, Gengar, Lucario, Farfetch'd, Dracovish, etc. Those are the kinds of Pokémon you would never expect Ash to get in pre-Alola League seasons.
If anything, Goh catching a Legendary means that Ash can get any Legendary he wants. Like say... Ho-Oh. Or Mewtwo. Or Latias. The possibilities are endless. Heck, why not Mega Evolutions? Or regain old Pokémon long thought released? Journeys opens the gates for Ash to do anything he wants rather than stick to formula.
And that's a good thing because I am not going to sit through another Gym Badge routine just to see Ash lose in the League (or heck, even win a League since that has already been done).
Mistakes Were Made
Those are Pokemon that were very much expected at one point, except maybe Dracovish and even then that one was a toss up. It's part why reactions (that I've come across) have been mixed. Dragonite, Gengar, and Lucario are Pokemon that people felt he should gotten in previous seasons. And while some like that he got them now, there's assertion the current format doesn't do some of them justice. Also, while I do expect Ash might get a key stone, I doubt the writers would do something like giving him a major Legendary. In addition, as far as I'm aware they haven't even brought up Ash's older Pokemon so I'm doubting returns.
‘My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.’
The difference is Ash usually only captured pokemon for the current generation, and pokemon from older gens were considered...well..old as they didn't advertise anything from the current game. Had the current series been a traditional one, Ash would just had all Galar pokemon, 1 starter, and go on as usual.
What I find interesting though is even just a few years ago Iris got a lot of backlash for capturing Dragonite back in 2012, yet Ash capturing Dragonite was a lot better received. Iris' Dragonite had more personality than Ash's due to being disobedient, too.People thought Iris shouldn't have captured a 3-stage dragon as opposed to Axew getting to evolve, etc. Kinda ironic since we might see Ash and Iris' Dragonite battle when she cameos this series.
Mistakes Were Made
Pretty sure there were a combination of factors in regard to that.
‘My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.’
The problem with Goh catching Suicune has nothing to do with Suicune and everything to do with Goh and his goal. The anime has always treated legendaries with a certain manner of threat and menace, and always treated captures as a big deal too. Goh does neither of those things, and him catching Suicune in an offhanded way is pretty jarring.
It's the equivalent of Goten and Trunks going Super Saiyan, honestly.
Siiiiiiiiiiiip
Except he's just a personification of Pokemon Go, and that has you catching any Pokemon like it doesn't matter. They still bother to make it notable here, like his goal to get Mew. Also, Articuno has a trainer too.
It's not that odd. Is it handled super well? No. Goh is definitely not in a very good type of anime, due to its established rules. However, the only Legendaries that are treated as a problem being caught are ones that directly controls the elements/nature. ...Does Suicune even count as that? If not, then it's less of a big deal than is being made.
...It's weird having so many websites and no way to properly display now, lol.
Tbh we already saw Mallow taking care of Shaymin (although she didn't capture it), and Lillie with Magnearna in SM. Not to mention older stuff in the movies like Max and Jirachi and May and Manaphy. Granted none of these were captures in pokeballs, but they were essentially the same thing.
I think people are less hesitant to characters capturing mythicals or "lesser" legendaries that aren't as strong/important to lore as the others.
Mistakes Were Made
As someone that dabbled in Go, Goh tends to capture mons much more easily. Previous showings with Suicide did depict it as a force of nature. Not overwhelmingly so, more akin to a nature spirit. Also Articuno was still wild.
I think "not being captured" is the key distinction here and most of those instances were under the knowledge the accompaniment was temporary.
Edited by Cross on Feb 8th 2021 at 11:36:11 AM
‘My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.’
Siiiiiiiiiiiip
Oh, I don’t like how easy his captures are. It’s accurate, but still dumb.
I feel like this change is poor too.
That said, Iris isn’t liked for being bratty. Dragonite’s capture made it worse.
...It's weird having so many websites and no way to properly display now, lol.
[remembers the Deus Ex Zapdos in a couple Johto episodes]
The Protomen enhanced my life.
Weve had multiple Legendaries/mythical be caught by people. Suicune isnt even high tier when it comes to them being a mere pokemon resurrected by Ho-Oh into bis current form.
Hell a minor guy who exists solely to be a roadblock to Ash had Darkrai as one of his main pokemon because Ash wasn't allowed to become a Champion for years.
People really want to tgive the anime more credit on how it treats Legendaries than it deserves, especially as its the movies that actually give them that sort of mystical respect most of the time.
Edited by OmegaRadiance on Feb 9th 2021 at 7:58:31 AM
Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
The other argument I've heard is that the poachers were just a bunch of nobodies who managed to catch Suicine...but like, we saw that they were polluting multiple lakes and water bodies in a row and weakening Suicine. They may not be Pokemon Hunter J levels of competence (let's not forget she PETRIFIED THREE LEGENDARIES) but they had this planned out for a while now.
Exactly, and best of all, Ash has beaten at least 6 Legendaries at this point: Articuno, Regice, Darkrai, Latios, Silvally, Tapu-Koko, like people are like "oh you can't bring up Sun and Moon because it was badly written," but whether or not you agree with that statement, this has happened pre Black/White.
Heck, yeah Omega, even in the movies we've seen the villains be responsible for capturing (2000), defeating and at some points their end up killing a Legendary (Heroes). To quote British Arceus roasting Giratina:
The Legendary Pokemon are strong, but we've seen them be toppled before, and it's weird even fans who have seen at least 4 out of the 8 series are treating this like it broke some standard rule.
Edited by DevilSketch36 on Feb 10th 2021 at 8:09:58 AM
Siiiiiiiiiiiip
I forgot about Darkrai. Like, some are just cases of poaching or befriending. But this one's an outright catch. Sure, terrible character design overall, but yes, Legendaries being caught is a thing outright in the show.
Though the continuity of some movies with the anime aren't clear either. Many easily fit in just fine, while others are directly tied. I don't think any of the movies have contradictions though. That said, the first two Mewtwo movies and the Lucario movie are clearly in continuity. The whole Aura aspect is kept fully throughout DPPT, and we see the events leading up to the first movie in general(though obviously some events happen at the same time as the anime, just telling it from another character view). Only the third Mewtwo movie is kind of awkward at best, but eh.
For the most part, the movies are generally there to link up with the current anime cast while not adding strictly to the actual anime continuity. They can easily, but don't get acknowledged in the show.
...It's weird having so many websites and no way to properly display now, lol.
As I recall one of the annoying things about Hoopas movie was that it just treated all the legendaries as fancy toys to throw at each other for Hoopas amusement because they really wanted fo show him off. So theyve even made straight up bad movies where the intent isn'f pretty stinky from the start in its handling.
Mewtwo even appeared to encounter Ash with Gou again several episodes before this, or how they nearly caught sicht of Ho-Oh farther back. They're pretty clear on how they're letting them interact more with Legendaries, and not all Legendaries are created equal in the games or movies. Heck Zapdos beat them when they tried to fight him.
Edited by OmegaRadiance on Feb 10th 2021 at 5:14:23 AM
Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
Siiiiiiiiiiiip
Indeed. Though there's also some that fall under Mythical as a term as well. Aren't those more often caught than the regular Legendaries?
Even then, there's little difference anyway. But it's just a show to advertise various games. It's clearly not meant to be "perfect". Besides, you can catch Legendaries/Mythicals. So it makes sense the anime characters can too. You just have to do it more legit than the ones in the anime often do, heh.
...It's weird having so many websites and no way to properly display now, lol.
Dagded Dujardin
@Devil Sketch: Minor nitpick but Zoroark isn't a legendary, not even a pseudo-legendary
"Bingo! If two species hate each other, they will wipe each other out on their own."
Let me fix that mistake and add Tapu Koko in there. Knew I messed up somewhere.
Come to think of it, didn't Ash's Noviern beat Zapdos? Kinda set a precedent after that.
Edited by DevilSketch36 on Feb 10th 2021 at 8:10:41 AM
The movies are all canon, they just have nothing to do with the plot and are usually just hour long filler episodes.
The days when Mewtwo could blow up Team Rocket's headquarters and fly off to star in a movie are behind us.
Dagded Dujardin
Not really(?). It's more like Noivern got a few hits on it then everything was interrupted by Team Rocket before the battle concluded.
One thing I learned fairly recently is that Mythicals are referred to as 幻のポケモン (maboroshi no pokemon) in Japan, while Legendaries are called 伝説のポケモン (densetsu no pokemon). Apparently the original Japanese treat them as distinct categories.
I ended up rewatching Pokémon: The First Movie, and they do refer to Mew as a Mythical in the Japanese script, so it’s a term that’s been around for a while.
Edited by dragonfire5000 on Feb 1st 2021 at 11:14:54 AM