Pokémon anime

I just remembered something I always found odd on the Pokemon Anime. In the anime there was a children's day episode. And in that episode they celebrated it the Japanese way. The day is celebrated by the flying of koinobori flags and kites in Japan. But in the dub Ash just sees the flags and immediately says "Oh it's children's day!" 4kids, for all the Japanophobia didnt change or even made an attempt to explain anything to kids outside Japan.

They did leave stuff like kimonos (the princess festival ep right before it has them), and Gary was in a kimono in the first Cinnibar Island ep with Blaine. But I guess there's no way to edit clothing out, lol.

Anyway 1998 was a different time. Anime was a "new thing" in the U.S. at the time, censorship was huge back then, just look at how Dragon Ball Z or Sailor Moon were completely cut up in their original dubs back then and they weren't done by 4kids, it's just everyone did the same thing.

It's just so weird back then every company thought anime had to be toned down for children, even in shows that were actually aimed at kids at the time. It really shows how much things have changed over 20 years, that you really don't see anime treated like this anymore.

To be completely honest its precisely that they are kids shows that they are censored. Sure that shit flew in Japan but THIS was aimed at little kids in Japan. And yes this was an anime meant to sell robots to little kids.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHq4UqC_y68

Even Dogasu, asshole as he is, knows the censorship is not what is wrong with the dubs.

If the video needs context or it goes down, its an absolute gorefest that would HAVE NEVER been allowed on kids tv in the USA, even now, from Beast King Golion, the Japanese original to Voltron.

Damn.

And let's remember, Go Lion ain't shit in Japan. It's not considered iconic at all.

And this is the kind of shit they were doing.

What was appropriate for Kids in Japan and the West back then was very different.

The same goes for Pokemon.

Ironically Zambot 3 is even darker than Golion and in that series deaths were bloodless... But they had to be because they were SO GOD DAMN many and so much other messed up shit.

And even MORE ironically... If the series doesnt have blood, gore or some sort of adult appeal, it simply wont get licensed anymore. 4kids and Saban are gone but along with them is any chance for a kids show to be licensed out of Japan.

To tie this back to Pokemon, Dogasu has praised the dub of Pokemon Horizons, they are very faithful.

but the difference is that 4kids was the most visible due to the internet.

Edited by dms2345 on Feb 11th 2024 at 4:26:00 AM

The thing I find amusing is how the censorship of the 4Kids dub regarding violence had created a ripple effect on the Pokémon Adventures manga reception in the English fandom. Namely this belief that the manga was Darker and Edgier than the anime, therefore better. Nevermind the fact that both had similar approach when it came to violence depiction (including Pokémon being cut in half), it's just that one adaptation was much bigger in scope and thus that one got sanitized around the Orange Island arc (which is when Japan started to realize that Pokémon was becoming big in the US) and the other one didn't came to the West until the G/S era and was mostly uncensored (mostly, they still censored certain scenes).

Speaking of Pokémon Adventures, has anyone been updating on the character sheets?

I wouldn't be surprised if why a lot of the slapstick tendecies of Kanto were toned down was due to the influence 4kids had when Pokemon became international.

Misty got a lot less violent, she stopped slapping/punching Ash (in a comical fashion), same with Meowth who used to use his claws to scratch James/Jessie's faces and that gradually stopped too. All of Kanto was written before Pokemon came to the west, so you can see how different the first season was because it was written exclusively for the Japanese market.

Sadly it's always why Misty's role in Johto felt so forgettable bar a few episodes, once you toned down her tsundere aspects she really did just become a Togepi holder until she left the series. Johto makes up the most of Misty's run, yet most people remember her more in Season 1 and Orange Islands because she felt more dynamic among the group.

So last week’s new episode of Horizon Dot caught Tinkatink what do y’all think of this?

Okay, so I FINALLY found the dub for Pokémon Horizons and I’m watching it with some kids I’m looking after.

So I don’t know much about the premise. All I know is there’s a girl who is the protagonist. The Internet told me she might be Ash’s daughter or something.

There are now competent villains.

And there’s a Pikachu with a hat.

Alright, let’s see what awaits us.

Okay, so she’s in the Kanto region…..

I can’t tell, is this an entirely new universe or has Ash’s adventure’s happened here?

We don't know what connection Liko's universe's has to Ash's or if they will ever allude to any connection. But he's not her father as her dad was shown to be a different person later on.

Edited by MacronNotes on Feb 12th 2024 at 8:18:15 AM

Yeah the moment she said that she was at this school because her parents attended, I realized her dad couldn't be Ash.

Ash would never go to a regular school that doesn't allow him to travel.

So some thoughts on the first two episodes:

-Is that Steve Blum giving the narration?

-Liko is a pretty neat lead, different than Ash, and she kind of gives me autistic vibes? Am I the only one who gets that? Very interested to see where she goes from here. Also what the hell is a Nidothing? Feels like great value Iono. All she does is explain basic things everyone should know like type advantages.

-I was very surprised at the school setting and I was fooled into thinking this would be the main setting of the series. Liko had her roommate and best friend introduced, Ann, most of the episode was Liko trying to bond with Sprigatito in school. Too bad there aren't any convenient Fearow flocks for Liko to show how much she cares.

-So these are the main villains. No motto huh? Not even trying to capture Sprigatito to give to the boss, just straight up attempting to take the Pendant and then Liko. Yet despite how serious this Amethio guy is, he kinda feels only just a bit more competent than Jessie and James given how Liko can tell he's obviously evil.

-Damn it, Rhydon got worfed. It's always a punching bag to show how tough the main character's Pokemon is. First Pikachu, then Red's Charizard, and then Sprigatito.

-I groaned at Friede having a Charizard. That thing is overexposed. I was rooting for Ceruledge.

-Liko says she's the main character, but it kinda feels like the people with the Airship are.

-Pikachu with the hat is pretty badass, NGL.

-Oh no, they captured Sprigatito! So I guess still more competent than Jessie and James.

Overall, pretty damn good introduction, NGL.

Zir and Conia are the grunts of the Explorers while Antheio and others are their bosses. Characters.Pokemon Horizons The Series Antagonists

Edited by lalalei2001 on Feb 12th 2024 at 8:10:44 AM

Oh so there are more of them. I gotta say, it's neat how Team Explorers and Team Rocket have a boss with a name that starts with G.

I didn't even realize that until you said it.

They didnt in the Japanese version.

- Yep, that is indeed Steve Blum. Sadly, we don't have narration in episodes after the first one.

- Nidothing's videos are essentially the Fleeting Demographic Rule truncated into a livestream format (you have to consider who the primary target audience of the series is). In earlier series, Ash or another character would teach the audience these mechanics. Liko, nonetheless, is cool in her own way, more quiet, but distinctive from Ash.

- The Explorers are a step up from Team Rocket. I don't even think we know their true motivation and haven't seen their leader yet. At least Sprigatito has a quadruple advantage over Rhydon, with Grass beating both Ground and Rock.

- Sadly, some species are just too iconic to phase out. Because Charizard has notable Wolverine Publicity, the anime needs to feature it so older fans have a reason to watch, and with Horizons having notable adult characters to follow, The Leader Friede has to own the two most famous good-aligned Pokemon, Pikachu and Charizard.

late but in regards to Aegis P's point about the "Children's Day" bit being left in; that was an early episode before 4kids began removing more Japanese stuff iirc; on top of that someone from 4kids i think stated either they couldnt remove the Children's Day thing because GF/Nintendo insisted or because it was minor enough that they didnt feel like kids would get weirded out

the only real travesty is that they didnt dub the angry schoolteacher in a mafiosa-type voice because according to some Japanese dub watchers (including Dogasu...) she speaks in a really Yakuza-styled voice

also late: i too am asian-american and immediately knew the "riceballs = donuts" thing was bullshit but i also live in a heavily immigrant-populated area that has a strong japanese presence; compare some yokel or unfortunately trapped kid in the middle of White Ass-End Midwest, especially one with parents who think anything not white and middle-class is Obscene Devil Work

ironically i hate Pokemon Adventures elitists for opposing reasons: like Shadao said, elitists of it popped up to insist the manga was    so DARK and BRUTAL and MORE MATURE    when it is almost-literally just the anime except half the gym leaders are Genocidal Hitler figures and at least one character is completely OOC from their game counterpart. it's still a fucking kid's comic book

edit:

Also 4kids is partly to blame for people thinking Misty's crush was a bigger deal than it actually was. Of course it's still in the Japanese version, but its pretty subtle in Kanto and after Orange Islands it's already largely phased out, besides a few brief moments toward the end of Johto when Misty leaves.

misty getting incredibly jealous is very much present in pokemon 2000 and even jesse makes a "lovebirds" joke in the anime

as a pokeshipper, if anything the misty/may hate wars was partially why i dropped off pokemon even in my later stages of middle school lol

in regards to dogasu preferring tpci: i much preferred 4kids' jokes. for a comparison: i watched an episode of Bakugan when i was bored and channel surfing. it was a straight translation. it was boring. i much preferred 4kids taking cracks at how bizarre the series was in Pokemon and YGO

Edited by MsOranjeDiscoDancer on Feb 13th 2024 at 1:16:48 AM

EDIT: Wrong anime; mixed up Beyblade and Bakugan.

Edited by lalalei2001 on Feb 13th 2024 at 4:28:05 AM

Bakugan is not 4kids, that's Nelvana.

i am aware. i am comparing 4kids' silliness to other dubs.

I think it's also noticeable that Pokémon stops being explicitly Japanese after Kanto. They even temporarily write Brock out of the show and replace him with a more racially ambigious guy.

So by Johto and especially Hoenn what 4kids is doing isn't that noticeable. The weirdest thing they do in that era is have Eric Stuart shout all his lines as James. Not sure what's going on there.

Edited by Joshbones on Feb 13th 2024 at 4:56:08 AM

Actually on second thought I saw Dogasu's comparison, and the dub just says "Kids day". I think 4kids thought that if they said it that way, kids would just think it was a fictional holiday. Unfortunately the Latin American dub (Which makes SO MUCH SHIT UP I bet Dogasu would have a heart attack) just said "Children's day" (There is no different word for Children and Kids in Spanish that are interchangeable) so that explains why it seemed like 4kids kept it for once.

Some of the Japanese stuff was unavoidable, like Ecurteak City has all Japanese buildings and houses in its town, there was no way to change that. Or those kimono sisters with their Eevees (Sakura who became Misty's friend later), etc.