During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Professor Gigachad
I'm back for a new proposal and I'm not super sure of this one but I thought I would at least give it a try.
What is the Work
Orphan: The Mind of a Psychopath is a 2018 fanfiction written by gothgirl97. Basically, it is an exploration into the life of Leena Klammer who is the titular main villain of the original movie. However, we won’t be talking about Leena as the story takes some cues from the original script and presents her as a tragic character. However, there is one that deserves a discussion.
Who is Leena’s father and What Has He Done?
As the name suggests he is Leena’s abusive father who is never given a name. Ever since she and her twin sister were born he would repeatedly sexually abuse them molesting them or flat out raping them for years. At one point he does have a realization over how bad he is but he refuses to admit his faults and goes right back to sexually abusing them. Though I should mention that Leena weirdly enjoyed it but Veera didn’t.
He also took advantage of Leena’s condition that made her much smaller to dress her up as a child while raping her. Eventually, Leena’s sister ran away after all the sexual abuse and never came back. Her father barely cared and went back to sexually abusing her for decades until he eventually got bored with it and just stopped.
Eventually, due to some other actions he takes that aren’t really relevant to this Leena kills him ending him for good.
Does he have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
There is one moment that gave me some massive hesitance the one I mentioned at the beginning where he realizes how bad he is and attempts to kill himself while drunk. However, in the end, this is nothing more than an Ignored Epiphany he refuses to admit his faults never shows any remorse for his crime and would continue raping his two daughters for years longer.
When it comes to his care for his daughters he only views them as sex objects at best, he does occasionally have some moments of seeming to care but that is all part of his abuse and manipulation tactic. There is also no evidence he cared about his wife and in fact, uses her death to his advantage. He also later start going out with another woman but there is again no evidence of legitimate care and considering how he treats everyone else it is super unlikely it is genuine.
There is one thing I should probably bring up in case someone has this concern. No, the fic is not too tasteless yeah the sexual abuse is a big focus for the first four chapters but it isn’t described in super graphic detail and It’s treated as something monstrous and horrifying, so I think that he is fine there. Also helps that the film isn’t some kids film so these kind of contents aren’t really out of place.
Does he meet the Heinousness Standard?
This is the part the has me the most worried in two regards. The first one is that his victim count is not super high he only has his two daughters. But with the fact, he repeatedly raped them for years when they were children and beyond I think that is bad enough to pass the baseline.
Another issue when it comes to heinousness is as you might have guessed Leena is in this and much the same as in the film this is based on. If you don’t know she is a serial killer who murdered dozens of men. However, I think her father’s crimes are distinct enough with the fact he is a child rapist who did it multiple times for decades.
Final Verdict?
Not totally sure but I am leaning towards a yes.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Leena’s father
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Kanryuu and Malagant
The Moron
Call me curious, but I decided to read it myself since it doesn't seem that long, and I'll admit that as schlocky as it is, it didn't get too bad in its descriptors and there is a plot there - and then I read this little bit after Leena kills her father
- I cried for hours after though, I know that. Cried and cried as I hugged and kissed my Father's corpse. I even mounted him and stuck him inside me, making love to him one last time.
Why couldn't he just love me back? And who would love me now?
When I was 'finished' with him, I cleaned myself up
Maybe not as graphic as it could be (and it is treated as fucked up), but something about that little detail is just a bit too gratuitous for me - I'm just gonna sit out of this one.
Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Sep 9th 2021 at 1:11:48 PM
The Draftsman of Doom
I'm leaning no to daddy dearest.
The Emperor of Evil!
Abstain on the Father.
Abstain on Father.
Update on the Wrath of the Righteous EP. It will likely be over the two weeks time over being right on schedule.
The game is very long.
After hearing some of the arguements, abstaining on the father.
Edited by xie323 on Sep 9th 2021 at 10:36:13 AM
Professor Gigachad
Yeah that scene, I will admit it is pretty graphic, but it didn't come across as that bad to be especially compared to some of the garbage I have seen from fanficition and it is treated as messed up as you said. I will just leave everyone to vote as I can see both sides.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Lizzid people!
Leaning towards abstaining.
Edited by AustinDR on Sep 9th 2021 at 10:46:20 AM
I'd... rather not vote on some dude who gets necro-fucked by his daughter.
Showtime!
Between that quoted bit and the fact the EP says Leena enjoyed the molestation and rape, I'm saying to Father on schlock rules
Lizzid people!
Yeah, not voting on that either. Too far.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
That's the part that will make me say no to the dad. that's a really fucked up thing to put in... anything really.
Edited by nwotyzal on Sep 9th 2021 at 11:15:28 AM
Professor Gigachad
If it does help somewhat I will say that the story does treat her enjoying it as being messed up.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Lizzid people!
That doesn't change anything. It violates the rules on violence and NSFW content.
The Draftsman of Doom
I'm sorry. I will have to abstain due to lack of familiarity with the work, although still lean towards declining decline the father as a candidate given what STAR said.
In any event, welcome back, Ordeaux.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
We have all made effortposts which went nowhere, or were ill advised. No biggie. That said, there's a reason I tend to be selective of my candidates.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Sep 9th 2021 at 3:04:33 PM
If I may do so I'm going to tactically suggest we hold fanfic to the same standards as anything so we don't end up having candidates from truly atrociously written stories on the basis that there are worse ones out there. This was a good faith proposal no fault of Ordeaux's but I'm going to put that out just to avoid letting stuff on part with The Unfunnnies creep back on to the list.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
No to the father.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Lizzid people!
Next time, Ordeaux, be more careful.
Current mood: sick of your shit
Shin Megami Tensei IV
The Father, not because his daughter's necrophilia, but because his daughter well....she does blow him out of the water in heinousness. There isn't much resource difference here, both are humans without supernatural powers.
Quint and Ziya.
From 'Ell's 'eart Oi stab at ye!
Abstain on Leena's dad. Will say, as someone who learned Latin and knows molestus used to just mean troublesome/pesky, it always disappointed me that it now is a byword for such unconscionable acts.
for Quint and Ziya.
A tentative for Leena's father.
Cut Kanryuu and Malagant.
Cut Kanryuu and Malagant
"No running in the halls!"