During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Woagh
The edit reasoning lists vague redeeming factors from a non canon tie in novel, namely how Bill "regrets" destroying his home dimension.
It comes from an all knowing god, to be fair, but the do it yourself book it comes from is non canon, so it's probably not much of an issue.
Edited by DoodSlayer136 on Aug 23rd 2021 at 6:23:33 AM
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
The reasoning given was this:
Bill has a Freudian Excuse (hating and feeling confined to his home dimension) and experiences regret (the Axolotl says he regrets destroying his dimension, and just refuses to admit it), which both disqualify him from being a Complete Monster
Looking at the character page for the Axolotl it seems the troper misinterpreted the Axolotls statement which is more along the lines of he'll never take responsibility.
Anyways I added it back with the edit reason for them to come here.
Edited by jjjj2 on Aug 23rd 2021 at 9:24:37 AM
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
Goku Black
Yeah even Hirsh according to the wiki says he considers that novel noncanon.
Plus I feel burdened by the rules dimension does not at all give him free reign to kill everyone in it.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Yeah he sorta missed the fact that it's meant to show that Bill refuses to accept what he's done is wrong and has basically buried it.
Edited by miraculous on Aug 23rd 2021 at 6:26:24 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Edited by nwotyzal on Aug 23rd 2021 at 6:30:37 AM
On the subject of Bill, the Axolotl's specific words are Bill:
Sixty degrees that come in threes. Watches from within birch trees. Saw his own dimension burn. Misses home and can't return. Says he's happy. He's a liar. Blame the arson for the fire. If he wants to shirk the blame, He'll have to invoke my name. One way to absolve his crime. A different form, a different time.
Personally, I see it the same way as Belial in Geed: yes, somewhere deep down they miss home and want to go back, and that makes them miserable, but they'll never actually admit they're wrong and their misery is their own fault.
Yeah, except unlike Ahmanet, Bill Cipher is an Well Written CM, but yeah, I never believed that he felt actual guilt for destroying his homeworld. And I don't recall him having any genuine FE either, so he stays.
Also, ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Set. It didn't seem like he had any redeeming qualities to me, but we can blame the film's poor writing for that.
Edited by Michealthehero21 on Aug 23rd 2021 at 6:46:59 AM
Yes to Set and the two Nazis.
I like how GOE ends on a blatant Sequel Hook that amounts to nothing. Much like Terminator Genisys and Green Lantern before it 
Edited by RobertTYL on Aug 24th 2021 at 12:14:26 AM
Set, Hitler, and scientist.
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Jade and hard Euron.
Edited by DaceyMormont on Aug 23rd 2021 at 8:55:58 AM
Unofficial co-Wiki Curator for Magnificent Bastard
This a joke is it?
MB Pending | MB Drafts | MB Dates
Sadly an exception cannot be made for the duo...
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
@DaceyMormont: Let's not go there.
I don't necessarily disagree with you, but let's just not go there. >__<
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Just a heads up: We do really prefer not to see those jokes
Okay. No more of that.
Unofficial co-Wiki Curator for Magnificent Bastard
The Draftsman of Doom
Please refrain from piling on, Sieg. The point has been made.
Edit: I think I need some space until things settle down.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Aug 23rd 2021 at 11:58:55 AM
Rawr.
Unofficial co-Wiki Curator for Magnificent Bastard
Sorry man, I just get really mad when people make terrible jokes such as these. I think I'll hold off posting the Oberon-Vortigern entry until things cool down. (Not that he doesn't need it, right?)
MB Pending | MB Drafts | MB Dates
Yes to Hitler and the Scientist and flipping to no to Jade.
Sieg again, just given what I read on the MB thread I really don't think he counts. And Dacey I thought it was funny, but yes don't do joke posts.
Edit: Name wrong heh...😅
Edited by jjjj2 on Aug 23rd 2021 at 12:26:03 PM
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
Don't worry, I won't.
RIP Toriyama
First, joke proposals are indeed not very welcome around here, I don't mind them as I'm capable of just overlooking them and moving on or actually finding humor from them since this is a hobby thread, but yes, just as a heads up, some are very, very averse to them and it's best to just not make them.
But secondly? There is absolutely zero reason to be a jerk to someone making said joke posts. Chiming in that it "wasn't funny" and was a "terrible joke" in such a confrontational tone is completely unnecessary, and we don't take kindly to such rudeness even more than someone making a joke post.
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
No I meant what troper? Maybe they should be directed here.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread