During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
The Unknown Unknown
Yes to Floss.
Clown Prince? If I recall, you proposed almost all of them. Mind weighing in?
Additionally... if a second, informed opinion is needed, I can peruse the fanfic.
Edited by erazor0707 on Jan 13th 2019 at 4:14:07 AM
A cruel, sick joke is still a joke, and sometimes all you can do is laugh.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Please do. I trust your opinion massively.
Only one thing to do: better wait until Tyk reads it.
Hey, you know whose job that is!
Edited by 43110 on Jan 13th 2019 at 7:15:40 AM
The Unknown Unknown
Then I tag in to steal the 3-count.
A cruel, sick joke is still a joke, and sometimes all you can do is laugh.
Erazor, please do and thank you so much.
Well, I'd say Admah could count considering he doesn't have the same resources as the others. (Mercury did have backing from Salem.) However, I can see why you'd be questioning his status.
What I also mean with the series' heinous standard, too?
It's not a good sign when the series requires a page for all of its awful sociopaths. This complicates things enormously.
I don't mind keeping a few here, but we need to get a comprehensive grasp of the standard and deeds.
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
I'm cool if the RWBY fanfic get a re-eval... Inb 3 tags Tyk gets brick'd
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I won't submit Jacques or cut any of the others until we get consensus.
If anyone hasn't seen this week's monster batch, here you go.
Is Gustave from the anime or light novel?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
I'm currently in the process of watching the actual RWBY series right now, so yeah. Staying away from this fanfic. You can have it, erazor. :D
Although I have noticed that it seems like this fanfic is more or less just RWBY if everybody was gay or bisexual—even those who clearly weren't in canon—and anyone who is even remotely evil is a candidate for being a Complete Monster. ...Not sure how I feel about that. :/
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Well, I'd say that there are some that have some more prominince compared to others. While there are several sociopathic characters, There are many that stand out compared to others.
I guess you could cut Admah since he still doesn't have nearly as many bodies as Abigail.
And there are some that I have excluded because I didn't think they'd get approved.
Edited by ClownPrince47 on Jan 13th 2019 at 6:35:50 AM
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
@acw actually he's both on the LN and the anime. But I only watch the anime so yeah :D
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Some standing out compared to the rest matters amazingly less when almost every villain is a cackling, unrepentant sociopath who engages in torture and murder. They made Neo, of all characters, into a sadistic Serial Rapist.
Tell me that isn't a problem. Admah, at the least, needs to go, and I still have to hear cases for anyone but Abigail and Scorch. The latter is the only one I'm entirely comfortable with right now... I won't raise a fit is Abigail is kept, but there's a serious problem with the standard right now.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
But still, many that stand out shouldn't mean all are CMs.
Seconding what Scraggle said. Scorch stays, Abigail I think can stay, but unsure on the others. I'll request cutting Admah tomorrow (if I remember) when I submit the batch.
Edited by ACW on Jan 13th 2019 at 7:38:56 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Well, I won't argue with you about Admah. He can be cut if it's that big of an issue.
I think Admah should go...I can see arguments for or against the rest. I'm fine with Abigail and Scorch at least...Raven, Mercury and Jacques deserve some consideration at least.
Reading the entries, Admah, while definitely a bastard, is pretty small potatoes in comparison to the other CMs. The rest I'm fine with keeping for now, but my final opinion is dependant on what erazor says.
Lizzid people!
I feel that Abigail should be the only one to stay myself.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
I could kind of see your point on Raven. Unsure on Schnee, however.
Edited by AustinDR on Jan 13th 2019 at 4:44:33 AM
I'd say that you could argue for Raven and Jacques since despite working for Salem, many of their heinous actions don't involve her.
As for Raven, she killed people in her raids routinely long before she joined Salem. As for Jacques, his alliance with her was mainly a way to serve his own ends and run Atlas.
How does that make their actions stand out? Okay, so they're not on orders. How about the legions of other villains committing awful atrocities on their own time? Because they might be slightly worse, that's suddenly the case for keeping them?
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
on Candy Floss. Abstain on Jacques based on what I'm reading.
The Unknown Unknown
Finished Ruby's Birthday.
Without reading the the series, my issue with Admah is... he went out like a joke.
Seriously, the final "confrontation" was Ruby snarking at his M.O. to the point he experiences a Villainous Breakdown that segues into a Motive Rant. Then, he's unceremoniously punched out by Yang.
At no point, did Ruby, one of the protagonists, feel concerned. So, why should the audience? That's not a good look for a CM candidate and how he stands with the heinousness standard.
That's it. He may have killed civilian families, but when it came to the heroes, who he should've threatened with his "super awesome" teleportation Semblance, he went out with a whimper.
Infinite at least tried to drop a virtual sun on people, and Sonic took him seriously enough to fight fully. Azula may have had one of the most pitiful breakdowns in history, but boy, was she a threat through and through. And I'm sure you guys can think of other examples.
The story's lack of detail certainly didn't help.
Sure, he started off with the proper gravitas, what with Ironwood killing him in the end to ensure he can't go on any more sprees, but... perhaps if this was standalone, it could be a maybe. Since this just the start of series? It's looking grim for Keter already.
Edited by erazor0707 on Jan 13th 2019 at 4:55:14 AM
A cruel, sick joke is still a joke, and sometimes all you can do is laugh.
Everybody from Shadow Queen to here, except fpr Magellan who isn't heinous enough and Jacques, whom I'm abstaining on until erazor gets back.
My main issue, too, with Ruby and Nora, is that the awful villains don't stop at those who qualify. Little Miss and Cinder alone seem like ten times as worse than they are in canon... then there's Lyra, Neo, Harold, all of them mass murderers or torturers or rapists or what-have-you.
Edited by Scraggle on Jan 13th 2019 at 5:14:13 AM