Lost in Space
Oh, a meta-example. But that's not "justified", by our definition of the term. That's maybe Conversed or Discussed.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Zzzzzzzzzz
Or lampshaded.
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
Maybe, for work pages, we have Goof namespace? Or not bother?
Helpful Scripts and Stylesheets here.
"Please Elaborate. How does this hierarchy not make sense?
- Did Not Do The Research: Super Trope
- Architecture Flub
- History Flub
- Paleontology Flub
- Physics Flub"
I thought the definitions were: "The author got some things wrong" and "The author cannot comprehend basic math/logic/whatever" for Did Not Do the Research and You Fail X Forever, respectively. Kind of like what High Octane Nightmare Fuel has become to Nightmare Fuel.
edited 13th Oct '10 2:45:58 PM by LostHero
Lost in Space
We're trying to get away from those kinds of value judgements, unless I completely misunderstand the purpose of this thread.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Mighty pirate!
You Fail Indexes Forever is already a subtrope of Did Not Do The Research. This changes nothing.
Bird mom
Listen. An author not getting something right doesn't imply stupidity only ignorance. If we listed every mistake that every author made on one page the page would be far too long. Therefore we categorize the mistake by the area of expertise required to understand it.
The Crystal Caverns A bird's gotta sing.
Okay, how about this: We use X Flub for the main pages, and use You Fail Forever as the Darth Wiki part of each page? The place is already negative, I'm sure it'd fit right in. Hell, if it comes down to it, I'll sort through the pages and put the especially negative examples there. That way, we can please this crowd here in the forum by being less negative on the work page, and please the other tropers by not sacrificing a trope.
How does that sound?
Bird mom
What point would that have other than insulting writers?
The Crystal Caverns A bird's gotta sing.
Zzzzzzzzzz
We aren't sacrificing any tropes. The tropes are staying the same and maintaining the same relationship to each other. We're changing the name to something that is less antagonistic and less likely to inspire a defensive response from people who like the works that are added as examples.
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
^"Sacrificing Trope names", I suppose.
^^ A: This way, people can bitch about how so-and-so doesn't work and be however negative. Trust me, it alleviates stress amongst some of the more hardcore types.
B: Read Darth Wiki. Seriously.
edited 13th Oct '10 3:00:28 PM by LostHero
Hm?
There's enough complaining on Darth Wiki. We don't need any more.
Anyway, X Goof sounds fine to me.
“Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?”
Nonsense. There can never be enough whining. 
Really, I'm just trying to come up with a solution for everyone. It may not seem like it, but our group here only represents a fraction of Tv Tropes. Plenty of people probably don't even know this voting is even going on. Therefore, I feel I am somewhat obligated to represent those who don't have much a say in this (if only because of their not finding this.)
I really wish we could get more from outside the forum, if only to get a general opinion. Hey, it might even prove me wrong, and they really like it.
Bird mom
The problem is that You Fail X Forever would serve the same purpose as X Goof except that You Fail X Forever is negatively loaded.
The Crystal Caverns A bird's gotta sing.
...So? If the tropers start flaming, just go punish them. That's what mods are for. The name-change will probably cause as much dissent as the current name does now, if not more.
Bird mom
Nope I really don't see people getting worked up about this. And You Fail X Forever would be flaming by its very use.
The Crystal Caverns A bird's gotta sing.
I certainly can, though I suppose that's what hanging around the TF 2 forums does to you. Or hanging around the Crowning Moment of Awesome page after its dethroning.
Anything subjective will offend someone. The key here is to take that in stride, and know that it's coming no matter what you do.
edited 13th Oct '10 4:23:54 PM by LostHero
Bird mom
CMOA was a long standing trope in the community which was altered without even an attempt at diplomacy even those who thought the change was neccesary could see the uproar from miles away.
The Crystal Caverns A bird's gotta sing.
You gotta get yourself some marble columns
So what shall we call the trope of Bob unsuccessfully trying to fly by flapping his arms, when the author doesn't think that would work?
The child is father to the man —Oedipus
Zzzzzzzzzz
Re: #491: We don't need to encourage winging and whining. We don't want to encourage hinging and whining. Darth Wiki isn't just a trash can in the garage that we throw garbage into and ignore because we don't have to smell it rotting anymore that way.
^ Sounds like "comedy" to me.
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
^ Poor choice of words on my part. Perhaps I should've said "We could move the title and more negative/snarky entries to Darth Wiki, where not as many people would get mad over them because it's Darth Wiki and it's meant to be darker and edgier?" That way, Flub could possibly be better received, because any fans of the old title would still have what they wanted.
^^ i think what hershele meant by going into "watsonian vs. doylist" territory is when it happens IRL vs. when it happens in-story.
example: in series X, bob, the main character, tries to fly by flapping his arms, to incredulous looks from all other characters. needless to say, he doesn't get off the ground. now, this wouldn't be a case of Physics Goof, because the writers clearly know you can't fly by flapping your arms, hence why they didn't make it happen. bob fails physics forever, though, because he should've known people can't fly like that. it's even lampshaded via the other characters' "what" expressions.
Lost in Space
That's not these tropes; it's a different trope, possibly Achievements in Ignorance, Wrong Genre Savvy, Lampshade Hanging, Cloudcuckoolander, etc.
edited 14th Oct '10 7:28:50 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
You gotta get yourself some marble columns
Started a new thread for this.
Crown Description:
That doesn't mean people won't try to list justifications on the Flubs pages, or that they won't list things as examples that are justified.
It's not a "justified" fail forever trope. It's an in story fail forever thing. Essentially a character gets a subject wrong, possibly because they learned Hollywood Science and gets corrected.
Fight smart, not fair.