The Legend Of Zelda - General Thread

Not Ocarina of Time, but still Goron-related.

@Ultimatum, I believe you're thinking of Biggoron's brother, Medigoron.

I just realized Skyward Sword kinda brought new meaning to the series being called the Legend of Zelda, since it revealed Zelda technically has two goddess representations/incarnations/whatever, Nayru and Hylia, while Link only has Farore and Ganon has Din.

Do you really think Link and Ganon are reincarnations?

I always assumed Link was just the right man in the right place who could fulfill the job, so Farore chose him, while Ganon chose himself by stealing the triforce and breaking it but keeping Din's piece.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Jun 19th 2020 at 11:45:20 AM

I don't think the triforce holders were even meant to be champions of the golden goddesses. They just happened to be worthy of the individual triforce pieces the goddesses left behind. The golden goddesses themselves seem very uninvested in the goings-on of Hyrule, outside of the one time their oracles went house hunting in castle town.

The Hero of Time aspect makes it a bit more complicated later (though the only time the "Hero of Time" was MEANT to be there and didn't show up, it was because OOT Link had gone back to the past). Skyward Sword kind of gave me the feeling that in this fated struggle between Hylia and Demise, there just happened to be a random fellow who had the courage to tip the scales. When Demise vowed revenge, he set up a reincarnation cycle with Ganon/dorf and Zelda, but I don't know if Link reincarnates too.

Demise seemingly cursed Link's reincarnations and Zelda's descendants. To be exact, he says he places a curse on "the spirit of the hero and the blood of the goddess".

That makes sense, yeah.

> Ultimatum, I believe you're thinking of Biggoron's brother, Medigoron.

I probably am

I get the impression that Link is a Buddhist-style rebirth rather than a Hindu-style reincarnation, while Zelda appears to be the opposite and Ganon is sort of both.

Time for a look at Dharmic religions!

In Hinduism, atmans (souls) are discrete, atomic entities that survive after death. Some time after the physical body dies, the atman enters a newly-formed body, and a new person is born who has the same atman as one who is deceased.

In Buddhism, a soul is conceived as a collection of attributes which disintegrate upon death; as such, the Buddhist concept is known as anatman, which may be translated as either not atman, not-atman, or possibly anti-atman. One component, the vijnana^note  May be translated as consciousness, life force, essence, mind, or discernment can begin a new life, the exact circumstances dependent on karma and elightenment. While the vijnana may persist, it's a new soul each time.

A common analogy, which I've seen attributed to Gautama Buddha but I'm not sure was actually said by him, is that Hindu reincarnation is like pouring water from one jug into another - the vessel is different, but the contents are the same. In contrast, Buddhist rebirth is like using a candle to light another candle - there is a deep, fundamental connection between the two flames, but they're clearly different flames.

Edited by VampireBuddha on Jun 20th 2020 at 11:33:45 AM

Multiple Zeldas have been mentioned to be the reincarnation of Hylia, so we know she at least is actually reincarnating. Ganondorf might be the literal incarnation of Demise, but he tends to just get resurrected so reincarnation or not he's usually the same guy.

Link is the tricky one. I love the idea of the Triforce of Courage being represented by just some random guy in the right place stepping up (likewise, it makes sense for Wisdom to reincarnate in an important family and for Power to just flat-out survive), but there have been various implications that he is reincarnating.

I don't know if it's ever been said Ganon is Demise's reincarnation. He's been called an incarnation of Demise's hatred, but that could just as easily mean he was created by Demise without necessarily hosting Demise's soul.

When was Zelda called a reincarnation of Hylia, besides the Skyward Sword Zelda? I thought the Zeldas were just descendents of Hylia, hence carrying the "blood of the goddess."

Even before Skyward Sword had it's Zelda be an actual reincarnation of Hylia, it was theorized that Zelda (and Link as well before Skyward Sword decontextualized the multiple Links with the Spirit of the Hero concept) was reincarnating across her own bloodline.

There's still no real confirmation of it, but I suppose people assume if she did it once, than she just kept doing it, even if unintentionally.

I don't think he's the reincarnation of Demise either, just the most successful of those (unwittingly) carrying out his curse, but it is a theory that has been brought up before.

As for Zelda, she was explicitly called a reincarnation in Skyward Sword, and... I can't remember the exact wording, but it got brought up in Breath of the Wild too. Her family's connection to Hylia was mentioned, and I think the "ancient legend" that she was a reincarnation was specifically stated. But it's been a while.

And of course Hyrule Warriors claimed both Link and Zelda are the same throughout the ages, destined to fall in love, but it's of dubious canon.

Edited by Discar on Jun 22nd 2020 at 5:37:33 AM

I do feel that there's been enough mention that the royal family is blessed by Hylia to consider Zelda a reincarnation - though she's different enough in every time that it sounds like the (very evocative) "candle lit by another candle" type of reincarnation. I feel like that makes the most sense for Zelda. That, or she's different people who are inhabited by Hylia's divinity, in a similar way to how - as far as we know - Ganondorf was already an ambitious, greedy man before, but he was also imbued with Demise's hatred and curse.

Link is a tough one, though. Especially since metatextually, he's the only one who is consistently being guided by an outsider who was also present for other, previous heroics by done by the Hero of Time.

Edited by RedSavant on Jun 22nd 2020 at 9:10:22 AM

Breath of the Wild consistently calls Zelda the "princess carrying the blood of the goddess", no mention of reincarnation.

Well, that does parallel some real world instances of some cultures claiming their royals had literally divine bloodlines, or at least the sanction of the divine to rule.

Yeah, Zelda mentions she had dreams of Hylia warning her about Ganon so they can't be the same soul.

I think it's a case of past memories warning her if anything,the equivalent of listening to a playback

But like, Hylia wouldn't know who Ganon is since he's long after her time.

Hylia is goddess so I assume she has some form of omniscience,enough to leave warnings for her mortal incarnation

Eh. I like the reincarnation theory. I'm sticking with it myself.

It's not like Nintendo has confirmed or denied it. I get the feeling they want people to form their own ideas.

Sure, they revealed the timeline, but they they had BOTW take place at an unknown point, and probably treat it as a Soft Reboot.

Is it happening in the child timeline? The adult? The failure? Is it happening in all three, or did they merge together? Who knows? Who cares? It's happening, and those other things happened. That's all that matters.

According to Hyrule Encyclopedia Zelda collectively is indeed the Goddess Hylia reborn.

Link as well is stated to reincarnate.

Edited by lycropath on Jun 23rd 2020 at 9:38:14 AM

So wait? They really did flat out say that Link and Zelda reincarnate?

That's a shock, especially for Link. I mean, that would mean that at least a few Zeldas are also his descendants since many of the Links and Zeldas have a implied romantic relationship.

I need to get my hands on Hyrule Encyclopedia at some point. I have Hyrule Historia, but haven't been able to get Hyrule Encyclopedia.

Is...is it not obvious that Link is reincarnating? If the curse is on the spirit of the hero and Link is always the hero then by definition and plain logic he has to be reincarnating.