Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
Classy, Refined, Unstable
@Emperor Geode With your Palaptine tweak, I'm not opposed to it but isn't "the empire" being destroyed hundreds of worlds?
Edited by WetFlannels on Dec 11th 2022 at 11:55:35 AM
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Lore: Could you elaborate a bit more about your concerns of seriousness for Lady Felmet? I mean the Discworld by its nature usually even the darkest villains get one or two jokes at their expense and have some undignified endings. What about her makes you concerned she's not taken seriously enough?
Not the Eye
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
My intepretation of entry was that it refers to his scheme from Star Wars: Aftermath which is focused destroyng the structure and personel of the Empire. Mentioning Operatin Cinder (name of destroy the worlds phase) would be mostly for sake of clarity.
Edited by EmperorGeode on Dec 11th 2022 at 4:05:19 AM
Barb / Temporary Kylo
@Oredeux
I think they should stay separate. Continuity is loose as can get in that series and, as you say, it would make the length skyrocket.
The First man
Showtime!
Can we format it like Palp's? That'd keep it separate while keeping them in the same canon.
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
Professor Gigachad
Part of the issue that comes from this is there is a lot of redundancy. Most of these entries mention Skynet wiping out humanity which is what he does in all of his versions and then has like one or two extra crimes. Sometimes the extra crime is used twice, two of the entires have "massacre the resistance" used and "wipe out a group of scientists" is also used twice.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Barb / Temporary Kylo
I guess I just don't mind it really. If they all count they all count.
The First man
I'm with Snoke here, if the canons branch and some crimes repeat then... some crimes repeat.
RIP Toriyama
Yeah, Terminator continuity is so screwy I'd personally say the entries can just be left alone, tbh.
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
To give more insight to Felmet, it comes down to a few issues for me, both from the book itself and compared to others in the series.
Starting with her crimes of torture, we don't actually ever see her do any of that onscreen. The only time she ever has a go at it is on Nanny Ogg, who insults her and her husband before they can even start. Nanny completely deflates the scene and makes Felmet and her husband seem completely impotent. Her orders of burning down houses was also noted to be something former King Verence did all the time along with Lancre's previous rulers. The most people really complain about Lord and Lady Felmet is that they didn't have the charisma to maintain a facade of friendliness like Verence did. The fact that she gets defeated by getting walloped by a stage prop also rather deflates her viscousness to me.
In regards to other books, many other villains were much more viscous and had greater atrocities. The prior book had Ipslore torture people in very gruesome ways, including his own son. The other Witch books see other female rulers like Lilith and the Elf Queen be far more cruel with how they torture people and in more creative ways.
Reading to where I have now makes me really not see Lady Felmet as having quite the level of vileness you'd expect for especially compared to other villains. Wyrd Sisters was almost a straight comedy, and, even when reading the first time through, I never particularly felt any disgust towards her.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
@miraculous: To answer your question about whether I got the information from the NPE Wiki: No, I didn't. I just made comparisons to the other characters from watching clips from the film. Just because the examples I was using happened to go over the same content, doesn't mean I necessarily used the website for the arguments. Besides, I'm pretty sure there's a rule against that on here.
Not the Eye
Lean on cut for lady Felmet with Lord Deluxe points.
Cut Flemet
Wow if the new guidelines regarding the new cleanup threads while waiting for the approval threads to re-open, we’ve spent the most time finding candidates to cut in a while, not that I’m complaining (on the contrary using this thread to anylize previous candidates to see if they need to be cut may prove beneficial in the future)
Nice to see that the new threads are up, can't wait to help contribute again once I have something to EP or discuss. Plus it allows us to finally discuss games and movies that have recently come out when they were still discussing how to fix the threads. Anyhow, welcome back everyone and I hope we can keep these threads safe and civilised, no offense of course.
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
This is just for cutting and editing existing entries, though- the approval thread will be separate and is still not open yet.
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Gotta love Jaws!
Having seen Get Out I'll say that the Sunken Place is enough to keep Missy and Dean on the trope, if weakly.
Felmet sounds like a cut.
Edited by Amanofmanyinterests on Dec 11th 2022 at 6:53:20 AM
"For a second there, I mistook ya for a threat... but you're just a dirty little man!"
Keep Dean and Missy. Glad to see that the thread is back, well, the cleanup thread at least. Looking forward to when the approval thread is open cause I got one hell of candidate to propose. In the meantime, it great to see you all again.
For the record when I get home, I'm going to post the animated movie of Wryd Sisters which is almost one for one adaptation to the book and point out the scene of Felmet's "torture" of Nanny Ogg to get my point across. It's also worth waiting for MGD since I'm sure he'll have a counter argument.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Showtime!
Honestly, you've got a point about Felmet. I think the thing I remember most is the fact that she's immune to having all her self-delusions stripped away because she already knows how bad she is and loves it... but I'm not sure that weight is matched by her actual deeds
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
Professor Gigachad
Leaning towards a cut for Felmet for now
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
What really brought me to bringing her up is that the general opinion of her in Lancre isn't so much that the people fear and despise her, but more a sense of apathy because she and her husband aren't as charismatic as Verence.
Verence hunted people for sport, burned down homes, and practiced the Lord's Right, but the people loved him regardless for his fun loving personality and apparently being really good in bed. The worst thing people constantly says about Lord Felmet is his complete disinterest in sleeping with the peasants.
Edited by LoreDeluxe on Dec 11th 2022 at 8:12:03 AM
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Leaning towards cut for Felmet- Lilith seems to be worse in every way possible.
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Gonna wait for MG Ds response to give a vote.
Also saw Violent Night feel free to PM for my thoughts.
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Goku Black
For Felmet I guess it depends. Swing and Teatime also have goofy moments as well but can keep because the major stuff they do is played seriously.
How much is that true of her? (I don't really read the witch discworld books).
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
There is honestly one page that I have kind of wanted to take another look at for a while. That being the current Terminator page.
The issue I have is that the page is mostly filled up with a lot of different versions of Skynet, mostly from Comic Book, not all of them seem particularly distinct beyond "wipes out humanity". The main thing I am wondering though is the continuity status on these comic books. Looking into them, a lot of these comic books don't seem to be alternate continuities but instead direct tie-ins.
The NOW Comics one does seem to be an Alternate Continuity. The Malibu Comics ones as is stated on the entry are supposed to be sequels to Terminator 2: Judgment Day. Death Valley & The Dark Years are supposed to take place after the first film. Infinity & Revolution are supposed to be set after Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines.
I will say though I have seen the films and I will admit that the series has extremely poor continuity with tons of diverging timelines and such. And also if we take the route of merging these entries Skynet's writeup length is going to skyrocket. But I am still not totally sure if all of these comics are safe in terms of their entries.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes