Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
Not the Eye
Plus as stated, there is scene where cat slave collapses from exaguation and slaver continues to whip him, with scene cutting after we see it in a shadow.
Is there anything to suggest disney child books take place in the same universe?
Okay, yeah...all of the Disney Chills books are by the same author. Vera Strange (real name Jennifer Brody). That's not something that happens with every Goosebumps-style franchise.
Yes, I'm positive these things are all connected.
The Moron
I mean, even if they're not outright canon to each other, they're still in the same series and so there's still a general heinous standard to consider, even if we don't outright hold them against each other. I don't even see Facilier passing by that metric since everything he does there seems generic in the series.
Professor Gigachad
It seems really unlikely they do, each book is in a completely different setting, with no connection between them.
Each book ends with the bad guy winning but there is seemingly no negative consequence shown in the next books.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Jan 23rd 2023 at 1:07:13 AM
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Because most of the books usually focus on a single victim? Like, even the book that prepares with Hades preparing to unleash the Titans doesn't actually end with him ending the world.
NGL, Ordeaux, if you want to make that argument the burden of proof relies on you to prove they explicitly aren't connected. Until then, there's nothing to say that they aren't, and by that logic, I don't see why Facilier should stay.
Edited by Scraggle on Jan 23rd 2023 at 2:11:30 AM
Professor Gigachad
I could try contacting the author to see if I can get word on that.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Go nuts, but I'm not really sure that matters. It's still the same series regardless.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
I have to agree with Ordeaux26 on this. By that metric there is nothing to say that the Disney Animated Canon or Quentin Tarantino's works aren't connected I mean they are released by the same company or writer but we don't just assume that they are and judge the villains as one henious standard. That said I also agree with STARCRUSHER 99 that they are all the same series and by the general standard he doesn't count. So, I say cut Faciler either way.
Edited by Bullman on Jan 23rd 2023 at 3:15:05 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Lizzid people!
I mean sure he can be removed? Was working under the impression the books are anthologies working in separate universes with no overarching connection. But if there's no solid evidence to prove it, then I can live with the cut.
UPDATE: On second thought, I'll just stay out of this.
Edited by AustinDR on Jan 23rd 2023 at 1:13:26 AM
The Moron
There's a difference between the same person/work working on a bunch of different works and the same author writing the same books in a single series. Neither of those comparisons hold up to me.
Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Jan 23rd 2023 at 4:13:24 AM
Except Tarantino's works literally have characters related to each other (Vincent Vega from Pulp Fiction is the brother of Mr. Blonde from Reservoir Dogs, for instance) and we don't list the Disney Animated Canon examples on the basis of them being a Shared Universe (exactly the opposite; it's just the Grandfather Clause the Disney page is still up—we've talked about that numerous times).
Those arguments are also seriously flawed, Bullman.
Edited by Scraggle on Jan 23rd 2023 at 2:15:39 AM
Caesar
Yeah I'm not seeing a case to keep Facilier myself, even anthology series still have an overall baseline established that we normally adhere to so even if they aren't explicitly "in the same world" they do all fall under the same series and author banner.
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
Not the Eye
Cut faccilier.
In this case....we can't separate the standard from the works themselves. They're all published under the same label and we've held Goosebumps and Fear Street to similar standards. Heck, we've held Disney to similar standards itself in its animated canon.
Professor Gigachad
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
There are other arguments to keep the page up. The Animated Canon is an official franchise Disney calls their series by even if there is no continuity Disney does tend to connect them.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Jan 23rd 2023 at 1:16:37 AM
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Scraggly: I take great offense at that since your argument was exactly.
"Okay, yeah...all of the Disney Chills books are by the same author. Vera Strange (real name Jennifer Brody). That's not something that happens with every Goosebumps-style franchise.
Yes, I'm positive these things are all connected."
So that is the exact argument you were making.
That said either way I said he was cut in my opinion.
Edited by Bullman on Jan 23rd 2023 at 3:18:52 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Okay, but that also has nothing to do with the arguments I'm using against Facilier. My points still stand.
Edited by Scraggle on Jan 23rd 2023 at 2:17:21 AM
Yeah, anthology series do have an overall comparison we need to hit together.
Professor Gigachad
I contacted the author on Twitter to see if I can figure out if the Chills series is a shared universe. I can't guarantee I will get a response though.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Bullman, I don't really understand where you think I'm coming from or why you're taking "great offense" to anything. I clarified why the Tarantino/Disney aspects were different; i.e. for the former there was literally stuff in-universe that confirmed it was a Shared Universe and that, for the latter, it wasn't a Shared Universe at all.
If you're going to be "offended" by anything, please contextualize my posts properly first.
Edited by Scraggle on Jan 23rd 2023 at 2:20:37 AM
Lizzid people!
I wouldn't bother the author on that kind of thing. Besides, that's going into WOG.
Ordeaux, you don't need to bother the author.
I'll go with cut for Facieler, but I'll say keep, if only just, for Ratar-o since he's only a one shot villain. I'm personally willing to give a bit more leniency on overall heinous levels for a one shot villain compared to a much more prominent long term antagonist like Mumm-ra.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Scraggle: I took offense at the "Those arguments are also seriously flawed, Bullman."
That gives off the impression to me at least that you thought I was making a bad faith argument when yours was basically the same thing.
Edited by Bullman on Jan 23rd 2023 at 3:24:34 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
I'd be fine cutting that Faciler, connected or not.
I retract my statement on Slithe. Seems like it was quite in-depth: WhatCouldHaveBeen.Thunder Cats 2011
Edited by ACW on Jan 23rd 2023 at 4:05:08 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts