Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
Funny that Isiah comes up shortly after I re-watch the film.
I was considering bringing up Isiah myself, and while I agree he's an abusive monster whose idea of "love" is so twisted and wrong, it can barely be described as such...I concluded that he was genuinely grieving his father in his own way.
Shortly after the funeral, there's a quick but lingering shot where Isiah is dressing as his father as seen in a younger picture of the man, and he's looking at said picture somberly as he does so. It may be me looking too much into something, but the shot does indicating he's genuinely mourning him.
Edited by Beast on Jan 14th 2023 at 11:41:22 AM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Then all the more reason to cut him in that case.
While the movie doesn't say Umbridge is the culprit, it's never outright revealed who ordered the Dementor attack on Harry and Dudley. Since it's not denied, I think it's still fair to say it was her. Thoughts?
@mir You see my previous post at the bottom of the last page?
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Jan 14th 2023 at 11:47:04 AM
Lizzid people!
Yeah, I apologize for not putting that in consideration when I first suggested him.
That's not substantive enough to just assume she did that to a school's worth of kids future.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
So Isaiah and the 2 TV ones are all official cuts?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Classy, Refined, Unstable
IIRC Umbridge was noted to only do it to Harry, Fred & George and their friend Lee. Umbridge in the films does it to the "Dumbledore's Army" and is shown to do it to first years as well.
The dementor thing however is exhumed from the films.
One final call on feedback for the Octomus rewrite?
Edited by WetFlannels on Jan 14th 2023 at 7:57:52 PM
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Again the attack is there, it's just never said who did it. Probably because they either forgot to write it in or purposely wanted to leave it ambiguous. Leaving it ambiguous still makes it scary because then you don't know whether or not it was Umbridge, Voldemort, the Dementors by themselves, etc.
If it turns out all three can have their own film entries too beyond just the book ones, then I'm happy with that. There's no reason not to be.
Also, that FS version of Palpatine from Return of the Jedi? I'm also happy with just cutting that line and leaving it at that too.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Jan 14th 2023 at 12:01:36 PM
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Octomus rewrite.
Not the Eye
I can see at least film umbridge cpgetting a separate entry, don’t remember onought to say fo voldy and bellatrix.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Only major difference for Bellatrix is her portrayal IMO, in the books she's less of a cackling sadist IIRC compared to Helena Bonham-Carter's hammy performance.
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Goku Black
Btw for Octomus. One tweak. Should be and drop(s) their bodies in front of the rangers
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Sorted in the sandbox
Regarding Mick Taylor, a few months ago a user on another site wrote to me and said they were planning to remove Mick from the Pure Evil category on that site because he has a genuine friendship with his superior in those books which is never subverted. I don't know what happened to his intented removal, but I still remember the conversation.
Not voting keep or cut, but if someone decides to check out those books, his relationship with his superior is something that should probably also be checked aside from a possible love for his sister.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Apologies if this is a double post but while we're on Power Rangers I just want to check something with this guy:
- Lost Galaxy: Deviot, in a show full of villains with standards, had none. He was a manipulative, treacherous Starscream who would cheerfully throwaway his men's lives, thought brainwashing was a useful tool, and had no loyalty to anyone. When Scorpius wouldn't allow him to enter the cocoon, Deviot arranged for his death. When Trakeena, and not he, inherited control of the army, he sends two of his men to kill her; when she survives the assassination attempt, he kills the assassins to cover his tracks. He later brainwashed Loyax into fighting the Rangers, leading to his death as well. Deviot ambushes Trakeena, forces her into the cocoon, and fuses with her. The absorption of his evil soul drives Trakeena completely over the edge, leading her to murder her mentor, Villimax, use her men as suicide bombers, and try to regain her human form by stealing the life energy of others. Totally untrustworthy, and out only for himself, Deviot proved that on his own, or influencing Trakeena, he could do more damage than any other villain in Lost Galaxy.
Uh ngl without this Trakeena business in the end, he seems lacking? But is Deviot's intention with the merge to make Trakeena go full psycho mode? Half the writeup is about how Trakeena obliterates the heinous standard.
If he's good to stay, he needs a rewrite IMO.
Edited by WetFlannels on Jan 14th 2023 at 8:31:59 PM
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Goku Black
Episode is free on youtube to check
Cut Isaiah.
Shin Megami Tensei IV
I was reading the X-Men discussion regarding Sabertooth and Apocalipsis and honestly, I think the best thing is that they should be handled in a similar way to DC C Ms.
Sure, 616-Marvel doesn't have the sort of mass reboots as DC Comics, but the sheer amount of writers means that de facto, you have similar situations where basically none of the original writers and creators of the characters remain.
Basically, add something as "The characterization of Apocalipsis until the 2020s / -introduce most important arcs- was a CM".
Obviously there would be cases like with Normal Osborn where its a CM showing redeeming traits in the current modern comics and then needing to be cut.
I say this because honestly, I feel that the current characterization of Apocalipsis with redeeming traits will likely remain for some years at least, but we can't ignore how there were so many story arcs writen before the current readership of Marvel was even born where Apocalipsis was writen as the epitome of evil with no kindness inside him.
Edited by KazuyaProta on Jan 14th 2023 at 3:48:00 PM
Watch me destroying my country
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
For Octomus, is Sadist better than For the Evulz, or nah?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
I uh wouldn't mind that tbh. With how fluctuating these guys tend to be.
Mysterious Fan
~Wat Tambor, from the Horror Villains wiki regarding his friendship with said superior:
One night, two men stumbled onto them while they were raping and torturing the women. Mick and Atkin shot the two men dead. Mick and Atkin later took part in a mission. During the mission, they stumbled onto a young enemy soldier cowering in his pajamas. Even though he was clearly terrified, rather than take him into custody, Atkin decided that he and Mick would kill the man. Atkin severed the man's spine, this is where Mick learned head on a stick, and let Mick have a go at him. Mick stabbed the already parralysed man in the back and cut off his head, which he later placed on a spike. While burying some bodies, Mick found a grenade, but did not tell his fellow soldier assigned to help with the bodies as he allowed him to get blown up.
When Mick and Atkin returned to the village, the village elder scolded them for killing the two men, and wacked Atkin with her cane. Atkin took her cane, snapped it, and stabbed it into her throat. Mick and Atkin then raped and killed all the women. As rumors began to spread about Mick being responsible for the soldier's death, Atkin began to worry about mick telling people about how they raped and slaughtered all the women in the village. Atkin teamed up with two soldiers who believed Mick killed the soldier. The three conspired to kill Mick, but Mick killed them first. Mick went AWOL and went back home. Returning to Jerry's mine (which he had made his own lair), Mick believes he saw the ghosts of Atkin and his old friend Eddy Taylor telling him the mine used to be a place for sacrifices, stating that if Mick killed people, the spirits would give Mick superhuman speed and strength.
Edited by The10thGeek on Jan 14th 2023 at 8:52:53 PM
Classy, Refined, Unstable
@ACW Octomus' motive is For the Evulz. He does all of this because he can. He's hammy as hell but there's no discernable motive.
That's why i used that pothole.
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Ah, works for me then 
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Oh and thanks for the Deviot link Mir, I'll give that a look after unless anyone's got a statement about it?
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Not the Eye
Kazuya’s idea does have potential.
Looks great.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."