Thread current status:
It has been agreed by crowner to merge the Light Novel/ namespace into Literature/.
LightNovel namespace index -- excludes redirects
It has been agreed by crowner that Light Novel examples are to be sorted on trope pages as follows:
- If you're adding an example with LN in mind, place it in Literature.
- If you're adding an example from an Anime/Manga, but unsure if it was present in LN, place it in Anime/Manga.
- If you're adding an example from an Anime/Manga, but know it also happened in the source, place in in Literature.
- If you're adding an example from an Anime/Manga, and sure it did not happen in the source, place it in Anime/Manga even if the work is already listed in Literature.
- If you're moving an example, for example when renaming or handling redirects, and don't know much about other versions, instead just leave it where it was.
- If you know all versions of the work, move examples to the medium they're first featured in.
- Webcomic examples with adaptation go to either Webcomics or Anime/Manga following the above logic.
- Web Serial Novel are still Literature.
- There is to be no dedicated Light Novel folder or subpage on trope pages.
Edge case rulings:
- Due to extreme differences with the original Web Serial Novel, Overlord (2012) will be the hub page for the Overlord Light Novel and its adaptations. Overlord 2010 will cover the WSN.
Original post below.
This has now come up twice in Ask The Tropers in the past year that I know of.
The issue is pretty straightforward: where do we put examples from Light Novels on trope pages?
General options previously proposed:
- Put them in Anime and Manga since they're commonly adapted into them.
- Base things on the original medium, and group them with Literature.
- Take a Third Option and create a Light Novel folder.
Points about this media space that are commonly raised:
- The manga and especially anime adaptations tend to be more available and more familiar to the Western audiences that comprise most tropers.
- The adaptations into manga and anime are usually very faithful Compressed Adaptations, so most trope examples apply to all versions.
ETA: Related issue that came up:
- Should the Light Novel namespace be merged into Literature?
Here's a link to pages that are in the LightNovel/ namespace.
Edited by Tabs on Nov 22nd 2022 at 9:50:41 AM
the Retromancer
Is Danganronpa IF even an own thing or just a bonus mode inside Danganronpa 2: Goodbye Despair?
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Friends forevermore
It was awkwardly placed as a folder on the first Danganronpa's page. I think I might have been the one to split it off, but I regret that now.
Edited by bwburke94 on Aug 11th 2022 at 5:30:47 AM
I had a dog-themed avatar before it was cool.
(she/her)
Are we good to start a crowner with the options listed on this post?
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
All set here.![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Could I suggest an addition to the proposed crowner of: "Change Anime & Manga to Japanese Media and move all examples there" (or something worded better).
While I personally think Light Novel examples should go in the Literature folder, I think my suggesting would be a little less confusing for casual editors.
Edited by SebastianGray on Aug 11th 2022 at 2:29:31 PM
the Retromancer
I'll wait for a mod to comment on that because it would affect the placement of examples unrelated to light novels.
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
(she/her)
I don't think a Japanese media folder is necessary and I don't want to move too many things around. That would apply to works from multiple namespaces and I am not sure how it's going to solve any confusion rather than add to it.
Edited by MacronNotes on Aug 11th 2022 at 10:25:45 AM
Macron's notes
That's cool. As I said, I would prefer them in Literature anyway (my first thought was to introduce a Multimedia examples folder but even I thought that was a bit much![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
).
Friends forevermore
We already use "Multiple Media" for stuff like BIONICLE.
Cross-wired freak
I've seen Bionicle in Toys on a lot of pages, even when it's for stuff from the tie-ins
Listen to my podcast
the Retromancer
Toys.Bionicle is an interesting case and kinda annoys me because I can hardly find info on the movies, but that can get own thread later.
Japanese Media folder also cam be mentioned again one day later, but I'd prefer to finish light novels discussion and cleaning first.
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Captain of USS Bajor
Yeah, I'm good with the post 134 options. Although I think we probably need a "when in doubt, do X" applied to them.
At the risk of continuing the derail, Bionicle probably needs to be moved to the Franchise namespace: it's a toy line with comic books, novels, video games, and animated films all based on it.
(she/her)
Hooked the crowner. Not sure how to implement ^
Macron's notes
Huh? I can't parse the options correctly. They're written in such a confusing way that I'm not sure which to vote.
(she/her)
The people that spoke up including you said the options were fine so I went with what Amonimus suggested here. I'll try to rewrite the options but not right now.
Edited by MacronNotes on Aug 11th 2022 at 7:36:11 AM
Macron's notes
Ah, I must've missed that while sleeping. But yeah, Amon's suggestions are not written well and are cases of Sesquipedalian Loquaciousness, making it difficult for me to parse what the intent of the options are. Like "medium folder for Light Novels" has been copy-pasted a couple of times but I really don't get the intent of that since it isn't clear. Like, does it mean "create separate folders for LNs regardless of namespace changes" or something?
I'm sorry, but those suggestions will have to be rewritten to be more simple and straight to the point. They're too verbose as of current.
Edited by CytoZytokine on Aug 11th 2022 at 4:53:29 AM
Captain of USS Bajor
I'm not sure, either, TBH, I think we leave that decision until we've decided the broader sorting issue.
Edited by StarSword on Aug 11th 2022 at 2:21:15 PM
Peeks from Under Rocks
The First option was intended to determine whether Light Novels should, by default, be folderized in Literature or if there should be a separate Light Novel media category. The other options were intended to build on top of that. Let me try a re-write:
- Should the standard media folder for Light Novel examples on Trope pages be Light Novels? Upvote for yes. Downvote to place them in the Literature folder.
- When there are multiple adaptations of a story in various mediums:
- Prioritize the source in all relevant cases. (Stand-alone or Light-Novel-First examples would go in the folder decided above. Examples from Light Novel adaptations of Anime First works would go in Anime & Manga folder. Web-Serial-Novel-First examples would go in Literature, even if we decide to do a separate Light Novel folder.)
- Prioritize the adaptation if there is one. (Examples from Light Novels works would go in Anime & Manga if it has an adaptation. Web Serial Novels examples with Light Novel adaptation would go in the folder decided above.)
- Prioritize the adaptation medium for adaptation-exclusive examples and use the folder decided above otherwise, even if it allows the work being listed twice.
I'm not sure if this can be made clear in crowner format, as the order is constantly rearranging as options are voted on.
Edited by underCoverSailsman on Aug 11th 2022 at 7:04:37 AM
Much better. Now I can understand the intent of the options clearly.
the Retromancer
Sorry if it was sounded clear just for me because otherwise I'd be copy-pasting a whole paragraph of disclaimer that Light Novels folder may or may not exist in those cases. Also I had to keep in mind that in a crowner there is no grouping for options and they can move around.
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Peeks from Under Rocks
Another re-write, to account for the changing-order issue:
- A: When no adaptations are involved, should the standard media folder for Light Novel examples on Trope pages be Light Novels? Upvote for yes. Downvote to place them in the Literature folder. (The answer here will affect how the other examples are implemented.)
- B: When adaptations are involved, Prioritize the source in all relevant cases. Examples from Light Novel adaptations of Anime-First works would go in Anime & Manga folder. Web-Serial-Novel-First examples would go in Literature. (Mutually Exclusive with C and D.)
- C: Prioritize the adaptation if there is one. Examples from Light Novels would go in Anime & Manga if it has an adaptation. Web Serial Novels with a Light Novel adaptation would go in the folder decided in A. (Mutually Exclusive with B and D.)
- D: Prioritize the adaptation medium folder for adaptation-exclusive examples. Use the default folder for the source medium for examples present in all versions. - For Light-Novel-First, this is the folder decided in A. This means that some stories may have examples in multiple media folders. (Mutually exclusive with B and C.)
Still understandable?
Edited by underCoverSailsman on Aug 11th 2022 at 12:07:37 PM
All clear to me.
(she/her)
I'll go forward with for the new crowner if there aren't any objections.
No objections from me, now that the writing issue is sorted out. Anyone else ready?
Crown Description:
I think Danganronpa IF may just be best served as a folder on Franchise.Danganronpa, because it doesn't fit cleanly into any other page.
I had a dog-themed avatar before it was cool.