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Noaqiyeum mind like smoke and eyes like mirrors (it/they) from the light on the edge of sleep Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
mind like smoke and eyes like mirrors (it/they)
Nov 23rd 2022 at 2:28:07 PM

The creepiest thing is when you notice that the people sharing the gossip seem to have an awful lot of circumstantial evidence, usually going back years and sometimes including stuff from long-deleted accounts or websites.

If someone with any level of clout or fame gets accused of basically anything, there's always at least one person who's apparently been stockpiling data on them and just waiting for the day they can show up and destroy their target. kf is a major enabler of this behaviour.

It is extremely dismaying to my anarchist sympathies that the modern web has so many tools available for sousveillance and community support, and their primary use is by the neighbourhood cringewatch.

Edited by Noaqiyeum on Nov 23rd 2022 at 10:29:28 AM

all that god has given is surreal | I draw night shapes
Diana1969 Gun Girl from Bavaria, probably Relationship Status: Non-Canon
Gun Girl
Nov 23rd 2022 at 2:33:28 PM

It's actually one of the tricks a lot of the harassers use. They'll pick someone who is annoying or who isn't squeaky clean, and then whenever anyone tries to point out that the harassment itself is terrible, you'll get a dozen people swarming the replies to say "well, this person has this problem or that problem or they had the occasional take I don't like" and it starts to snowball and be used to justify the harassment. It's best to not feed into it at all.

Literally, this happened with Lindsay Ellis and Natalie Wynn.

I don't know Keffals as a person, I don't watch her streams, I don't follow her on Twitter, but it is BEYOND frustrating that when I make a point about how the harassment campaign against her weaponized that fifth columnist bullshit I was referring to, the same thing I was criticizing plays out.

A trans woman was literally harassed into fleeing her home country by a website that has doxxed, harassed, and contributed to the suicide of other trans people, and the response is "Well, she's done X Y Z bad things, she's not a good person", like that changes fucking anything?

"..." -Constanze Amalie von Braunchsbank Albrechtsberger (She/They Pronouns)
unknowing from somewhere..
Nov 23rd 2022 at 2:42:35 PM

"It's usually not that deep though. It's bullies who get off on attacking and harassing people and who can leverage a disability or identity into an excuse to dogpile on them and they don't give even the slightest shit about what they need to do or think to justify it. "

Meh, it they can also be superficial lefties, they are people who have a political affiliation only for very vague and superficial reasons that range from "everyone do it"(most christian often fall into this), to "I share a political stuff or two"(I feel this is pretty much Elon position, who fall into right wing mostly because he dosent like to be told what to do and that it) and other because they want to persive themselves as correct and do what they want that way.

"I forget if I already pointed it out here, but I believe a lot of self-proclaimed leftists on Twitter learn the rhetoric from rightwingers, but instead of learning to push away the thought process, only shift the ideas. Thus, they attack anyone not progressive in whatever "correct" way they believe, just like what a fundy would do with anyone not the "correct" Christian brand. "

Dunno, I feel is less rightwinger and they just get caught in the social media death spiral of sorts were if you can find enough stuff you are entitled to mock and bully everyone because at some level, we kinda sorta enjoy the idea of shitting on awfull people.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Redmess
Nov 23rd 2022 at 3:04:46 PM

It's not so much surveillance as stalking and old-fashioned nosyness. Every village has a handful of old folks (all too often old ladies with nothing better to do) who seem to keep a running record of everything that ever happens around there. The internet has just made it easier.

I don't think an anarchist society would solve that, either. If anything, it might make it worse.

"The best historian is the one with the best bias, rather than the non-existent one with no bias." - Carr
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from a handcart heading to Hell Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
Nov 23rd 2022 at 3:12:11 PM

Anarchist principles donít so much stop it as make it part of your civic duty. Because thereís no Ēthe manĒ to report people to the monitoring of others goes from nosiness looking to get people in trouble, to being part of community self-governance.

But it does change the culture of how that self-surveillance occurs. Itís no longer a small group keeping tabs on everyone to force their morals onto them, itís the entire community monitoring itself to locally agreed standards.

Edited by Silasw on Nov 23rd 2022 at 11:13:59 AM

"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
TheWildWestPyro Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
Nov 23rd 2022 at 3:14:43 PM

I feel this is best reserved for the General Politics Thread.

powerpuffbats When what you want to get at the store is out of Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
When what you want to get at the store is out of
Nov 23rd 2022 at 3:35:55 PM

I honestly hate how some people think that if a person has done a bad thing then they should be harassed.

I personally hate how people on social media get toxic really fast for stupid reasons.

What? All gone?!? HULA HEIDIIIIII!!!!
AlleyOop Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Nov 23rd 2022 at 3:41:16 PM

Someone can indeed be a verifiable huge asshole but it wouldn't be fair for them to get murdered.

ScubaWolf from South Carolina Relationship Status: I wanna be your sledgehammer
Nov 23rd 2022 at 3:54:32 PM

It would feel like karma though.

"In a move surprising absolutely no one"
powerpuffbats When what you want to get at the store is out of Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
When what you want to get at the store is out of
Nov 23rd 2022 at 3:58:08 PM

[up]Yeah!

I donít get why this is hard for people to understand.

What? All gone?!? HULA HEIDIIIIII!!!!
SatoshiBakura I don't even know anymore. from    The Shadow Realm    Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
I don't even know anymore.
Nov 23rd 2022 at 3:58:23 PM

It's especially bad that this somehow merged with shipping wars, which now have to be moralistic battles instead of dumb arguments.

   And itís sweeeeeet, sweeeeeet, sweet victory!   
Ramidel Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Nov 23rd 2022 at 3:59:26 PM

@Alley Oop: Would you still say that if the asshole's behavior drove someone to suicide or got someone murdered?

I despise hypocrisy, unless of course it is my own.
AlleyOop Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Nov 23rd 2022 at 4:24:44 PM

I'm talking about people with shitty manners, not outright criminals. At that point it's no longer just being an asshole, and I'm pretty sure nothing Keffals or other such targets did ever went into that territory.

Diana1969 Gun Girl from Bavaria, probably Relationship Status: Non-Canon
Gun Girl
Nov 23rd 2022 at 5:06:38 PM

How did it go from "Right-wingers on social media use a tactic of pretending to be leftists or appropriating leftist rhetoric to encourage harassment" to "Okay but what if they really sucked and karma got them?"

"..." -Constanze Amalie von Braunchsbank Albrechtsberger (She/They Pronouns)
Agentnutty Agent JC(Just Collateral) from UNACTO Basement level Relationship Status: Robosexual
Agent JC(Just Collateral)
Nov 23rd 2022 at 5:18:13 PM

If someone in social media caused harm to others, that should be reported to authority, not trying to dog pile them. This is not only ineffective, but time and time again, there has been cases when said person was innocent.

Does that mean I don't get the job?
powerpuffbats When what you want to get at the store is out of Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
When what you want to get at the store is out of
Nov 23rd 2022 at 5:18:20 PM

Yeah that was a giant logic leap.

Iíve seen people fall for ops by the right and start engaging in bad faith arguments.

-taps the sign-

Just because someone is rude, does not mean that you should stalk, harass, or try to kill them.

Edited by powerpuffbats on Nov 23rd 2022 at 7:20:52 AM

What? All gone?!? HULA HEIDIIIIII!!!!
OrangeBun Formerly Hail Muffins from The only sane region left in Brazil Relationship Status: I'm her lunatic and she's my sociopath
Formerly Hail Muffins
Nov 23rd 2022 at 5:27:11 PM

[up]x3 'Cause when you bring out harassment online, this sort of deflection is what always follows.

Some people really want to play the online Punisher and will go through all manner of twists in logic to justify it.

"But what if they're a jerk" "But what if they're a murderer" "But what if they're a sex pest", just moving the goalposts, over and over again.

Some sorts just really want an excuse to act like assholes while still claiming the high moral ground, it seems

Edited by OrangeBun on Nov 23rd 2022 at 10:29:34 AM

Chupa que a cana ť doÁe.
Zendervai Visiting from the Hoag Galaxy from St. Catharines Relationship Status: Wishing you were here
Visiting from the Hoag Galaxy
Nov 23rd 2022 at 5:51:25 PM

The actually really terrible people don't give a shit. They'll just laugh at it and ignore it or use it to justify their position. As a weapon, the dogpiling thing is only effective at hurting people and the result is usually either a terrible person doubling down or an innocent person being traumatized.

It's unjustifiable. It doesn't matter if the person being traumatized is kind of an asshole or not. It's an awful fucking tactic and responding to it being used with "well, this person does kind of suck means you're condoning traumatizing people.

Edited by Zendervai on Nov 23rd 2022 at 8:52:07 AM

Not Three Laws compliant.
Protagonist506 from Oregon Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Nov 23rd 2022 at 6:14:49 PM

Changing topics a bit:

I know advertisers generally don't like their advertisements to go on things that they deem unwholesome, such as porn or hate speech...or at least they don't seem to.

Is there an actual financial incentive for them to care about the content that their ads end up next to, or is it just ideological in nature?

If I had to guess it's for the following reasons:

  • It attracts bad clientele (I mean, let's say you run a store. Do you want the KKK to walk into your store?)

  • It might be seen as endorsement, which to be fair, it probably is at least to some degree.

  • Creating unwanted brand association.

"Any campaign world where an orc samurai can leap off a landcruiser to fight a herd of Bulbasaurs will always have my vote of confidence"
Noaqiyeum mind like smoke and eyes like mirrors (it/they) from the light on the edge of sleep Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
mind like smoke and eyes like mirrors (it/they)
Nov 23rd 2022 at 6:39:12 PM

At least online the main reasons are perceived endorsement and brand association, but both of those ultimately are ideological reasons.

(I understand it's unclear how much those actually have an effect on profitability - advertising statistics often aren't substantiated by independent research. It seems to me that it would be much worse for a website to host the wrong ad than it is for an advertiser to be hosted on the wrong website, but typically, the leverage is in the other direction.)

Edited by Noaqiyeum on Nov 23rd 2022 at 2:39:53 PM

all that god has given is surreal | I draw night shapes
Resileafs I actually wanted to be Resileaf
I actually wanted to be Resileaf
Nov 23rd 2022 at 7:50:07 PM

For some of them, especially those owned by fundamentalist christian groups, it is ideological.

Ghilz from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Relationship Status: Drift compatible
Nov 23rd 2022 at 10:21:15 PM

So Musk is running another poll asking if twitter should offer a general amnesty and unban everyone who didn't do something actually illegal.

Of course "Yes" is winning...

he's also claiming progressive groups would contact twitter to de-boost/shadowban conservatives on the platform

DrunkenNordmann from Exile
Nov 23rd 2022 at 10:26:44 PM

Elon Musk: "Twitter is full of bots"

Also Elon Musk: "Let's do a Twitter poll and treat the result as binding"

Flawless logic right there. tongue

Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Nov 23rd 2022 at 7:26:57 PM

Welcome to Estalia, gentlemen.
Ghilz from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Relationship Status: Drift compatible
Nov 23rd 2022 at 10:28:45 PM

[up]he claims the bots are voting for the losing option on top of that. The bot problem is really bad... But they can't overturn a vote according to him.

Florien The They who said it from a backsliding democracy Relationship Status: not set
The They who said it
Nov 23rd 2022 at 10:47:12 PM

To be fair, that is the standard authoritarian playbook. Claim fraud if you lost, and if you won, claim fraud but only against you.

So it's not surprising that he'd claim the bots are doing fraud in favor of the woke communists who will steal your gender and trans your children or whatever.


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