Is AdultFear too broad?

As of now, Adult Fear is simply defined as "the things mature, well-adjusted adults generally are concerned about, as opposed to supernatural, petty or far-fetched fears: the safety of their children, the safety of their neighborhood, the fidelity of their spouse, the loyalty of their friends and coworkers, the health of themselves and their family, being able to pay their bills, etc." on the main page's first sentence. That's six distinct categories (Children in danger, neighborhood in danger, adultery, betrayal, personal health, and bills), all of which are being covered by the same umbrella.

And somehow, Adult Fear is considered a trope rather than an index. It's trying to be too many things, in my eyes. If there has been discussion about it, I can't find any, so I apologise if this has been talked about before. I'd just like to hear people's thoughts about it.

Well, I always associated Adult Fear with parents worrying about the safety of their children and tend to forget about the other things it covers. Plus, I think Realism-Induced Horror covers some of it IIRC.

That may be true. However, AF is an listed as an objective trope, while RIH is YMMV.

Right. RIH is a feeling you get when things just hit a little too close to home. AF is just a trope about these things.

Come to think though it's a little odd that AF isn't subjective. Is it about the horror elements, or the actual fear they evoke?

The issue is what constitutes "Adult" is vague and could be applied to anything that's remotely mature. Someone could argue that death is an Adult Fear, because most kids don't think they're going to die. This trope strikes me as having a similar problem to Nightmare Fuel, as I suspect people treat it as a badge of honor. In this case, people assumes that a work that relies on Adult Fear means its horror is more cerebral and mature.

Yeah, this is all the convincing I need. I'm gonna start a wick check for this. Participate if you want.

I think that Adult Fear is supposed to be an event that creates a primal, usually parental, dread no one would wish to experience and feature a character within the story who acts as a surrogate for those fears. Realism-Induced Horror is rooted in the audience recognizing the realism of those events that creates dread, but is more about believability and does not require an audience surrogate. So Adult Fear can include a supernatural figure stalking a family and kidnapping a child, but strains the realm of Realism-Induced Horror.

Maybe it will bear out with the wick check, I have seen occasional misuse of Adult Fear that was about a character fearing abstract strife with their child rather than actual danger or emotional trauma.

I'm not sure that's the actual definition, though. Like Adult Fear definitely covers those cases, but in theory it should also cover shit like a family going into debt. Things that are only scary for adults because adults understand the concepts includes more than just "child endangerment".

Also remember that Adult Fear can only apply in a work whose demographic is not adults. It's not just that it makes adults upset, but that it goes over the head of its target audience.

If that's the case, then we've got serious misuse. A Song of Ice and Fire has its own page and that's definitely meant for mature audiences.

Are you sure? It doesn't seem to be stated, or even implied, in AF's description.

There is definitely something at odds if the trope covers everything from "I just went $20,000 in debt to buy a car I don't know if I can afford" to "teenager lured away from the family by a cult and you don't know if they're alive."

Now if the debt involves loan sharks or child protection services showing up, that might qualify, but like I said general emotional strife is a pretty weak type of example.

Edited by EmeraldSource on Aug 7th 2021 at 8:34:33 AM

Okay, so the trope page for Adult Fear says nothing about demographics but emphasizes mundane fears that prey on the insecurities of adults rather than fantastical fears, but this seems so vague as to be nearly meaningless. It seems like every single Lifetime Movie of the Week should apply. It's also an objective trope, when most "fear" tropes are audience reactions.

Exactly why I'm doing a check.

Sooo, I'm thinking we should split it into several (possibly YMMV) tropes. One for parents fearing the safety for their children (the one I associate with Adult Fear the most), one for being afraid of losing their jobs/homes, etc.

In my opinion, "work plays X concept for horror" is something objective.

But in a lot of the wicks we checked so far, they're either an in-universe fear or audience reaction. Granted, we're only 20 wicks into a 102 wick check...

Link, btw.

However, how people respond to fear triggers is completely subjective, which is why Nightmare Fuel is an Audience Reaction.

One of several things needs to happen to Adult Fear:

1. Redefine it as an audience reaction, which essentially merges it into Nightmare Fuel.
2. Make it about what I said earlier: triggers for adults in media intended for a younger audience.
3. Require Word of God that the work is intended to evoke mundane fears in adults.
4. Define specific, objective criteria. For example, whenever a work contains a child being abducted, that is an Adult Fear. However, this immediately causes another problem in that it must necessarily overlap with many other tropes. The implication is that it should be a supertrope and each specific event should have its own trope.

Edited by Fighteer on Aug 7th 2021 at 6:04:06 AM

We have Realism-Induced Horror for the audience reactions that Adult Fear covers or at least some of them, so we can split the latter into different tropes based around in-universe reactions.

Edited by Cutegirl920fire on Aug 7th 2021 at 5:05:14 AM

Slow down a little guys ^^'. We need to at least finish the check first.

Alrighty, we'll wait 'till you finish the wick check and take your time as well

I mean, you can help if you want to.

I'll look for the child endangerment ones as that's the one I associate with Adult Fear the most. Tho, since I'm going to get vaccinated in a hour, I may not start on it right away.

Er, hang on, these need to be random with no selection bias. See How to Do a Wick Check.

Ah, OK, then through that randomizer and check those it picks as long it's not on the wick check already?