Venom: Let There Be Carnage

Yes.

I'm not saying they were stupid, just that general audiences who may not follow studio politics and behind the scenes stuff that closely may have confused it for being part of the same setting (and if anything, the Morbius trailer seems to be intentionally feeding that misconception). I'm definitely not saying that was the case for everyone, but a good portion of the audience may have thought that.

Edited by lbssb on May 11th 2021 at 11:50:51 AM

For that long since it was announced, until they actually got into the movie theater?

From what I've heard and my friends. Most watched it for being fun.

I'm not denying that plenty of people found it fun, even if I personally couldn't. But the film was massively successful at the box office, which I think had to have had been because of a lot more appeal to casual moviegoers than simply being So Bad, It's Good. Of course, Venom being a very popular and recognizable character probably played a part as well. I doubt Morbius will be as successful based on goodwill towards Venom alone, unless it really surprises us by being unexpectedly excellent.

Edited by lbssb on May 11th 2021 at 11:57:44 AM

I am not going to engage in conspiracies over this. If a large sum of people tell me that Venom is a solid 8/10 actually good movie then I believe them.

The two things the movie gets right is a more faithful depiction of Venom and its relationship with Eddie Brock. If you thought the movie's So Bad, It's Good it's because they're the parts that made it worth it, if you thought the movie's legitimately good then most likely they're the only parts that really mattered, and if you think that the only measure of a movie's quality is if you enjoy it then, well, A and B. Nostalgia and brand strength carry the way from there.

The question ultimately is if they can pull it off again. And in fairness if any character can have that pull it's Carnage, but I still doubt it given Sony's track record. Meanwhile the SPUMC experiment is still darkly hilarious to me because they expect lightning to strike again for Morbius of all jobbers, and I will eat the biggest crow if they actually pull that off.

Edited by Watchtower on May 11th 2021 at 3:38:22 PM

I mean, I've seen Venom. Id give it a 6/10 on a good day. But I feel the same as bout Sonic and Mortal Kombat (2021), so take that how you will.

My one complaint about the first Venom was that the villain was early-MCU levels of generic, which this is already correcting.

So, he's like Venom, but he is, ...bad, bad guy... oh he is bad very bad.

This is probably the hill I die on, but I still maintain the belief that most of the people who saw the first Venom movie were assuming it'd have some iota of a connection to the MCU.

And yeah, Eddie and Venom's bromance in said first movie might've happened by accident, but I'm not sure if it's gonna work out when they try it again on purpose.

As for Morbius, I'm still going to be surprised if that ends up profitable given the character's niche nature and Leto's ickiness. I don't expect vampires to really get back to relevancy until Marvel Studios' Blade comes out.

And if you had anything to back up that belief that thousands or millions of people were under that illusion, and just that, no other interest in it, to the day it got released in theaters, that would mean something. Otherwise, it's just showing why you are dying on that hill, you don't know when to retreat. (General metaphor, don't take it personally.)

I honestly do not think it is that hard to not know that Venom isn't an MCU film.

When you're discuss an upcoming movie on a forum, you only talk to people who like to discuss upcoming movies on forums. But among the people who just... watch superhero movies and don't think about superhero movies all that much before and after watching them, I think it's easy to conclude "This is a movie about Venom, who is a Spider-Man character, therefore this is a Marvel movie". Most people aren't keep of track of all this stuff as much as you and I are.

All that said I am still in the "the vast majority of Venom's audience were just people who went to see Venom because they wanted to see Venom" camp. A movie of questionable quality was a financial success. It's not that weird. It's not an anomaly that needs an explanation.

We often forget that probably the majority of audiences who go to watch superhero movies are families. Parents with kids aged 5-13 make like what, the 60% at least of the bo gross in this type of movies?

Many parents just don't care or pay attention if it's the MCU, they just see that it's the latest Marvel superhero that all the kids like.

Put simply, people like Venom, and they heard the film was funny. Films don’t need to be masterworks to be enjoyable, and considering how many memes emerged, someone was having fun, even if it wasn’t the moody horror film people initially expected.

I don't think it's that difficult to look up basic information even if you're a casual movie-goer. The modern age of the Internet makes that piss-easy.

But, yes, I don't think it's an anomaly as to why the movie made money...which is kinda why "Oh, people just thought it was part of the MCU, that's why they watched it" irritates me because it's trying to say that people were just conned into watching a movie, unable to know better because they were too stupid to look up the basic facts about it. It's...kinda insulting to the audience?

Hmmmm. Perhaps the MCU sold me so hard on its shared universe that the idea of superhero movies *not* being connected to each other just feels foreign IMO?

But then, both Deadpool movies actively made fun of the ultimately artificial insistence that superhero movies *need* to be connected and have a bigger franchise to be regarded as "good." And Jeph Loeb was probably the only one who kept pushing the "it's all connected" notion, so hooray for hypocrisy?

When you put it like that, maybe it's not a totally impossible thought?

I guess my inner nerd still feels that having a Venom movie that goes straight to Eddie meant we lost a shot at a proper adaptation of Black Suit Spider-Man since Spider-Man 3 sort of went in a not-great direction with it. It hurts worse when we have seen that yes, Tom Holland can absolutely pull off "super-ruthless justice seeker" thanks to The Devil All The Time.

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on May 11th 2021 at 5:06:13 AM

What. I'd say something more about how we could still have a Black Suit Spider-Man, it's not completely gone but...yeah, I think I summed up my response.

Edited by fredhot16 on May 11th 2021 at 5:08:06 AM

There is absolutely this idea that a significant chunk of the MCU fanbase is so brand-loyal that they'll subscribe to anything and everything that has its stamp on it. The perception of this idea is at least real enough to motivate everything Sony's been doing with the Spidey movies since 2018, from coyly suggesting Venom was MCU canon initially to greenlighting the likes of Madame Web. The whole reason SPUMC is of dubious canonicity is because Marvel Studios won't just let Sony say that it is.

That all said, there is absolutely nothing to Venom's success beyond people thinking it's a good movie and going to see it. It's very clear when people are just clocking in for THE LORE and it was very clearly not the case from Venom's audience reception. I'm an MCU fan, I don't like how Venom's success has fueled this separated toybox of Spidey characters that I wanna see in the MCU, but I'm not going to pretend that Venom's success was in any way fake or illegitimate. People liked it, I don't get it, it sucks for me but oh well, if the people want it y'know.

Edited by Watchtower on May 11th 2021 at 8:10:14 AM

I'm still bothered by the lack of anything on Venom's chest.

Even if he can't have the spider symbol at least replace it with something so his design isn't just a blob of solid black.

And therein lies what sounds like the best train of thought for me. I really don't like the separation of Spidey characters that could thrive in the bigger MCU, but if the audience sees something in Venom that I don't, then that's on me.

OMG same. Yes, I get why a big white spider symbol wouldn't make sense given the tweaked origin story, but I still think there needs to be something on the chest. Imagine a movie where Batman spends an entire movie wearing a costume without his signature bat-symbol.

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on May 11th 2021 at 5:21:59 AM

Going back to my point of families, there were actual parents who took their kids to watch Deadpool and then stormed out of the theater after realizing what they got into.

If parents who casually watch the movies with their kids can't even keep track of something like that, they legit can't keep track if something is MCU or not.

I remember how in TASM 2 many people on the theater got excited at the after credits scene being a tease of X-Men, thinking it was going to be a crossover (I remember I had to explain to some friends that they weren't and why the teaser was there). That was a midnight opening screening, where only fans go, and yet most of the audience legit thought they were crossing over.

Edited by Akirakan on May 11th 2021 at 7:24:45 AM

I remember when I went to see Birds of Prey I heard some children in the audience with their parents. I hope they covered their eyes when Zsazs cut a guy’s face off. D:

Edited by Tuckerscreator on May 11th 2021 at 5:28:41 AM

I can still remember parents taking their kids to see The Dark Knight.

General audiences do not care or pay attention to which company is making which movie, and they absolutely do not pay attention to behind-the-scenes stuff like the deal that Marvel has with Sony to use Spider-Man. It is 100% believable that a lot of people did not know that Venom is not an MCU movie.

For all the backlash that Sony got over the news that they might be backing out of their deal, I guarantee you that 90% of the people that go to see these movies did not care at all.

Edited by Primis on May 11th 2021 at 5:31:00 AM

Image in who took their kids to see Watchmen and saw Manhattan’s dick.