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ThriceCharming Red Spade, Black Heart from Maryland Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Red Spade, Black Heart
#1: Nov 26th 2020 at 6:50:05 PM

I'm trying to write a story from the point of view of the Boogeyman. He's a Villain Protagonist that gradually pulls a Heel–Face Turn. But I can't figure out what the Boogeyman actually does. When I was a little kid, my parents said he ate unruly children, but I think that would make him irredeemable. Can anyone help me think of some good alternatives?

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SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#2: Nov 26th 2020 at 11:54:15 PM

Boogeymen do not by default eat unruly children. They could use spanking, nightmares, Things That Go "Bump" in the Night scares or something like that.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
ArsThaumaturgis Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: I've been dreaming of True Love's Kiss
#3: Nov 27th 2020 at 8:16:43 AM

I suspect that bogeymen vary considerably from country to country and from household to household!

I think that the two main variants to them, in my mind, are the "hazard in the dark" and the "punisher of misbehaviour".

In the former, the bogeyman is a being that lurks in cupboards and under stairs, beneath the beds and behind the doors. Should the child stray from bed, there's the risk that the unseen bogey may get them...

In the latter, the bogeyman is the parents' means of discouraging ill behaviour: should the child misbehave, a monster will come for them! To this end, the exact punishment may vary considerably, from eating the little one all up, to carrying them off, to biting their toes.

This article on Wikipedia has some interesting tidbits, I think.

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ThriceCharming Red Spade, Black Heart from Maryland Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Red Spade, Black Heart
#4: Nov 27th 2020 at 1:58:45 PM

He carries them off for sure, but what happens to the kids after they're carried off? Where do they go? I thought that maybe he forced them to do some difficult labor, like working in a coal mine (which works thematically, since "bad" kids get coal on Christmas), but I'm not married to the idea.

Is that a Wocket in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?
ArsThaumaturgis Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: I've been dreaming of True Love's Kiss
#5: Nov 27th 2020 at 2:06:53 PM

I don't see a problem with that idea offhand—is there something that dissatisfies you about it?

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DeMarquis Who Am I? from Hell, USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
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#6: Nov 27th 2020 at 3:31:09 PM

In my head, they end up at "Boy Island" from "Pinocchio".

Edited by DeMarquis on Nov 27th 2020 at 6:31:18 AM

"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."
ThriceCharming Red Spade, Black Heart from Maryland Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Red Spade, Black Heart
#7: Nov 27th 2020 at 7:50:53 PM

[up][up] Well, the thought that birthed this whole idea is that oftentimes children are punished not for actually being bad, but for presenting problems that adults are unable or unwilling to deal with, and how public schools are set up to train you to be an assembly line worker and stuff like that. So if the "good" outcome is that the child grows up to have a menial, soul-crushing job, then the "bad" outcome shouldn't be that they immediately get exactly that. It should still be a punishment, but a punishment of a different sort.

100% open to feedback here.

Is that a Wocket in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?
ArsThaumaturgis Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: I've been dreaming of True Love's Kiss
#8: Nov 27th 2020 at 11:42:32 PM

Okay, so you're looking for a "punishment" that could actually be seen as positive by the children in question?

Perhaps something akin to "Santa's Workshop", then? It might be initially presented by parents as menial labour, making craftworks of some sort for the bogeyman. But perhaps in truth the work is highly creative, allowing the children great freedom to express themselves through the works required of them.

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ThriceCharming Red Spade, Black Heart from Maryland Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Red Spade, Black Heart
#9: Nov 28th 2020 at 5:39:12 PM

No, it's not like that. It has to be a real punishment, but one that's not too serious (like being eaten) so that you're still able to sympathize with Boog in the end.

Think of him as a hybrid of Michael from The Good Place and a John Hughes-style uptight disciplinarian, or maybe the Grinch. At first, he thinks children are uniformly terrible and delights in tormenting them, but reevaluates things (I'll spare you the details) and ultimately becomes an ally for abused/neglected/misunderstood children.

This is basically a redemption narrative for the monster under your bed.

Is that a Wocket in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?
ArsThaumaturgis Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: I've been dreaming of True Love's Kiss
#10: Nov 28th 2020 at 11:42:42 PM

... but one that's not too serious (like being eaten) so that you're still able to sympathize with Boog in the end.

Eh, speaking for myself I don't think that even that would necessarily prevent me from sympathising with them, I believe. But it may be an obstacle for others, indeed.

(Although even the sorts of things that you're describing might be an obstacle to some, of course! But likely less than with things like anthropophagy.)

At first, he thinks children are uniformly terrible and delights in tormenting them, but reevaluates things (I'll spare you the details) and ultimately becomes an ally for abused/neglected/misunderstood children.

This is basically a redemption narrative for the monster under your bed.

Ah, fair enough. Thank you for clarifying!

Soo.... something bad, but not in the manner of menial labour? Hum...

Well, what about taking a page from BabaYaga's book, and giving each child a (presumed to be) impossible task?

Set them to climbing by hand up sheer cliffs or limbless trees; require them to count every grain in a crate of sesame seeds; make them catch every fallen or wind-blown leaf in a certain patch of forest; etc.

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ThriceCharming Red Spade, Black Heart from Maryland Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Red Spade, Black Heart
#11: Nov 29th 2020 at 11:09:05 PM

Yeah, I actually love kids and a big part of this story is that parents and teachers should maybe lay off them a little and let them have a childhood instead of constantly trying to beat them into a more manageable shape, so that's gonna be an ix-nay on the infanticide.

Is that a Wocket in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?
ArsThaumaturgis Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: I've been dreaming of True Love's Kiss
#12: Nov 29th 2020 at 11:26:34 PM

That's very fair, and I wasn't arguing that it should be present, or even suggesting that it be included. I was rather just pointing out that it's not necessarily something that would preclude all sympathy from all audience members.

(And I say that as someone who is fond of children too! It's just that terrible or abhorrent actions don't necessarily prevent me from also sympathising.)

Edited by ArsThaumaturgis on Nov 29th 2020 at 9:30:59 PM

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DeMarquis Who Am I? from Hell, USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
Who Am I?
#13: Nov 30th 2020 at 4:45:07 PM

I like the approach taken by Willy Wonka. His whole factory is basically a giant elaborate trap for self-centered children. It looks like paradise, and could be, if a given child were only able to put other's before themselves. Few will.

"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."
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