Ambiguous Name: John Barleycorn And Friends

I'm not sure that that I follow this sentence--could you rephrase for me, please? (Sorry, I'm somewhat tired right now, and may not be managing to infer your meaning. ^^; )

As I understand it, the trope as it stands includes both drugs (in the non-medicinal sense) and non-drugs (like binging on ice-cream). And "Consumable Vice" seems to me to cover that definition: things that are seen as vices, and that involve things consumed.

That might be a good idea, actually. After all, is there much difference between a character that personifies, say, alcohol, and one that personifies, say, gambling?

(I thought at first that expanding the trope so might collide with Embodiment of Vice, which was mentioned earlier—but that trope, it seems, doesn't actually cover literal personifications. Rather, it deals with non-personification characters that represent a vice in some way, if I understand the trope-page correctly.)

I think I should've been more clear for the first sentence.

The name would be restricting this trope to only consumable vice, even if the laconic and description says it's only allowing consumable vice.

Is it possible to extend this trope to something like gambling, which is not really consumable?

Edited by callmeamuffin on Dec 20th 2020 at 10:11:16 PM

Okay, but that's... good? The name agrees with the description and laconic?

Unless you want a name that's less-specific than the description and laconic. However, to my mind that would seem likely to incur misuse from editors who see a seemingly-clear-cut name, don't read the description, and use it as the name seems to indicate.

So I'm inclined to prefer a name that does indeed restrict the trope similarly to the description and laconic.

Add a note that says "do not confuse with Embodiment of Vice".

That probably is a wise thing to have, I do think.

Is this trope limited to consumable vices, though? Because it sounds flexible enough to cover things like gambling and porn addictions.

As currently written, it is so limited, yes, I believe.

To quote the trope-page:

Whether it should be is another matter, however. Do we have a broader trope for anthropomorphic vices? (Well, beyond just "Anthropomorphic Personification".) If not, perhaps it would be a good idea to expand this trope and to then just go with "Anthropomorphic Vice".

And since we're in TRS anyway, do we want it to be limited?

I don't mind expanding it to allow non-consummables.

Edited by Berrenta on Dec 20th 2020 at 1:25:19 PM

Expanding to non-consumables is fine for me. I already brought up one non-consumable example, King Dice, personification of gambling.

I'm fine with expanding.

I have no argument with extending it. After all, is there really that much difference between the ways in which consumables are anthropomophised and the ways in which non-consumables are?

Will we need another crowner (it would have to be a Page Action or Single Proposition one due to the current being an Alternative Titles one) to decide whether this gets expanded?

Probably.

Edited by callmeamuffin on Dec 22nd 2020 at 6:33:15 AM

Imho we don't need a crowner unless there's disagreement on expanding, in this thread.

Does anyone know how to remove a crowner entry? Apparently, someone named Spark 9 added "Johnny Cereal Box", when it's not meant to be an entry. I cannot fully describe it as sarcasm because I said that in a panicky moment because I thought this thread would be locked before we could get a clear name because the rambling and goalpost moving went on and on and on and it ran in cicles.

And I think it's been three days since we placed the crowner.

Edited by alnair20aug93 on Dec 21st 2020 at 6:30:23 PM

There was no real reason to remove that entry. At 1-25 against, it wasn't even in the running to begin with.

Yeah, I agree with Zyffyr.

Yeah. We also could agree that we could expand this to non-consumable vices like gambling and pornography to make it to Anthropomorphic Vice.

So, verdict?

Anthropomorphic Vice seems to be the winner. But let's make Anthropomorphic Addiction a redirect.

And how!