Values Dissonance/Resonance Cleanup

Uh... No, I'm pretty sure that murdering your family because you got punished once is still considered an extreme over-reaction. Like???

That kind of punishment is hardly abusive.

Edited by generation81 on Apr 25th 2023 at 6:44:13 AM

Using food as punishment has come under fire lately because it can teach kids to see food as something they need to earn, a mentality that fuels a lot of eating disorders. Plus, it's starving a child as punishment, which is bad for their health. So I can see that part of the entry staying, but the part that implies you should poison your parents for doing that should go.

I see what you mean. I figured it was more or less harmless, especially when compared to corporal punishment.

If you were a prisoner as an adult and guards denied you access to food, that would be illegal in most countries and be seen as a violation of your most basic human rights.

So to do it to a child is pretty much the opposite of "harmless."

From Theatre.Wait Until Dark:

• Values Dissonance: Today Susy's husband comes off as insensitive (even his actor thought so), especially during the final scene where he demands Susy walk over to him even though the apartment smells like gasoline, there are two corpses of strange men littering the room, and Susy is in shock and covered in blood behind the fridge. And Gloria's tantrum isn't justified by what we see (at least, in the film, where the animosity between them is softened a bit; in the play, Susy's behavior towards Gloria is much harsher before the girl finally snaps).

This sounds more fitting for Unintentionally Unsympathetic.

Thoughts?

I agree that it sounds more like Unintentionally Unsympathetic, assuming we're supposed to root for/sympathize with him.

The way this example from ValuesDissonance.Anime And Manga is worded... Kinda rubs me the wrong way:

In Ponyo on the Cliff by the Sea, a mother leaves her five-year-old son alone in a typhoon in order to take supplies to elderly women in the old-folks home, who seem to already have others taking care of them. This looks like child neglect from a Western perspective, instead of dedication to her job and trust in her son's maturity as was probably intended. Also, elders in Japan are viewed with great respect and their well-being is important. While in the West, it wouldn't be uncommon to hear "They're going to die soon anyway. Shouldn't you be focusing on your FIVE-YEAR-OLD SON?" In Japan, it's a completely different attitude. Mixed with the dissonance above and it really is a case of culture shock.

The "They're going to die soon anyway" part in particular definitely feels wrong to me.

Granted, it IS an argument but it's usually not phrased... like that. It's more along the lines of "it's better to protect the young, who have their whole lives ahead of them, rather than the old, who have already lived their lives". Of course it's a moral dilemma either way (more of a trolley problem than anything) and I don't think it's a universal belief in the states like the example would have you believe.

The "who already have people looking after them" is wrong, because Lisa works at the retirement home. She's not just a rando going to help strange old people, they're her actual responsibility.

It's also not insane to leave a five year old alone for what was probably going to less than 24 hours were it not for the very balance of nature being upset and the moon itself falling out of orbit.

There's a lot of factual inaccuracies to make the situation sound somehow less understandable.

Eh, I agree on the first paragraph, not the second.

Five year olds getting into horrible accidents around the house happens when the parents are around, so it's much more likely to happen when they're completely unsupervised.

A five year old probably can't cook, or reach for things if they need it; a five year old may not even know what to do in the worst case scenario. Considering it's a flood there are a lot of things that could happen.

Like... Little kids don't need to be watched 24/7, but you don't leave them home alone, especially not for hours in a flood.

Edited by WarJay77 on Apr 29th 2023 at 2:34:26 PM

Yes, but that is no longer a matter of values, it's straight out bad parenting, which isn't exclusive to any place or culture.

I mean, the example is arguing that Japan doesn't see it as bad parenting.

To be fair Japan DOES see kids as mini adults that dont really need any care and are given lots of responsibilty.

There is a Netflix show where 2 year olds are sent to bring the groceries.

I still agree that entry is a dumpster fire.

I agree that the entry is a mess and I think it might not count because (if I remember correctly) I haven't heard the "They will die soon anyways" argument before I read that entry. That said, I might be wrong since I'm still not completely sure.

Edited by RandomTroper123 on Apr 30th 2023 at 1:03:02 AM

What makes it misuse, exactly? It was brought here on concerns about the wording (which I agree is bad).

I didnt say it was misuse I said at that as is it is a dumpster fire.

Yeah, but Random said it "doesn't count".

I think the entry IS good but needs to be entirely rewriten from scratch. I know that sounds contradictory but the idea of the entry is good its just horridly written.

No, I agree there. I was just trying to understand if there was a usage concern I missed, but they altered their post so I guess it's not an issue now.

Someone just added the Values Dissonance entry for Recap.Futurama S 4 E 13 Bend Her prematurely, can I go ahead and cut the YMMV page that it's on for now?

How about this:

In Ponyo on the Cliff by the Sea a mother leaves her five-year-old son alone in a typhoon in favor of taking supplies to the elderly women in the old folks home she works at. This looks like child neglect from a Western perspective, suggesting the woman is a bad mother. Japanese culture prides itself on dedication to one's workplace and caring for one's elders, while the Western perspective would likely encourage a parent to prioritize their child's welfare over their job or the elderly if the choice needed to be made between the two.

That's so very awesome. Nice rewrite!

very nice.