Should You Know That Show be renamed?

So, it seems like every day someone comes in to use Ask The Tropers when they should go to You Know That Show. I feel like the name might not be clear enough. It's a relic from an older time. YKTTW and Lost And Found were renamed for clarity so why not You Know That Show? Maybe something like Work Finder or Show Finder?

Edited by MacronNotes on Jun 6th 2023 at 11:05:58 AM

Honestly, it might be better to rename ATT or something, since people confuse that one for Trope Finder and YKTS all the time, and the Trope Finder name-change hasn't really seemed to help that issue any.

But otherwise, I'm down for renaming YKTS.

Oh yeah ATT is very broad too. We probably need that communicates its only for wiki issues and questions

"Ask About the Wiki" for Ask The Tropers and "Media Finder" for You Know That Show?

The former is probably good, though I'm not sure if it covers all bases, as occasionally questions about forums or vandalism reports pop up. The latter is an idea because misplaced YKTS queries on ATT seem to be made by newbies, and I'm not sure if a newbie will know that a work is a piece of media if we made it Work Finder, while Show Finder may make people think it's only about TV series and cartoons? Then again, Media Finder could potentially make people search for images, videos, and audio files, because for some that's the definition of Media? Though since the header has "Tropes" and "Media" as the first two main options, that may make this consistent and possibly hard to confuse.

I am spitballing and trying to look at this with a perspective of a novice, as to reiterate, those kinds of people make misplaced questions on ATT that belong on YKTS.

Edited by Piterpicher on Mar 3rd 2020 at 2:17:11 PM

There used to be a banner that would point people in the right direction- that'd be pretty helpful, too. I also saw people mention that:

• ATT being at the top means people are likely to click on it first.
• Since all of these are queries anyway, we might want to bring them to another page first and ask what it is they're looking to do (find a trope, find a show, report a bug, etc) and then bring them to the proper page after?
• Another suggestion was a pop-up box that let you know what ATT was for, something that could be turned off after seeing it once.

Renaming these sections could help, though rearranging them on the side may also help; as people would have to see TF and YKTS first.

Rearranging these sections could work, but it's ultimately hard to say. While it may bring a newbie to TF or YKTS first, experienced editors would probably rather pick ATT first as that's what they usually use. The amount of times I've checked ATT vs. TF or YKTS is 20 to 1 at the very least, even if I don't post there all the time. Maybe making TF and YKTS first for the first month of troping and ATT first after that could work, but that would take some time to get used to after the first month.

An in-site pop-up that you see right before posting the first or first few ATT queries could be a good idea. That said, the box would probably have to linger for at least 10 seconds before the post button is available, so that newbies would actually read it. The possibility of being redirected to another page if you're posting for the first time may also be possible, but it'd also have to be not closeable instantly, as again, people are likely to ignore a skippable with one click notification (at least, that's how I think it'd go).

Thoughts on my names? Are they okay?

I'd like if mods could move such queries between the ATT variants.

I think Media Finder might be the best so far for ykts. Ask about the Wiki is fine but os missing the report a violation/issue part. But I am not sure how we could include that and be concise.

Perhaps something like "Wiki Matters" or "Wiki Issues"? Or even "Wiki Issues and Queries"?

I think people often put stuff in ATT that doesn't go there because they know they will get a response. It is much more active than the forums, we also get a lot of Is this an Example/What is this trope questions that are also better suited for Trope Talk, but if you post them on ATT people will actually respond.

So I think this has to do as much with the culture of the site as with the names.

> Perhaps something like "Wiki Matters" or "Wiki Issues"? Or even "Wiki Issues and Queries"?

Or

Tell The Tropers

For YKTS, perhaps something like "I Don't Remember the Name, But..." or other phrasing that frequently comes with those queries when they land on ATT?

X Finder might imply it's something like a place to get recommendations.

Edited by immichan on Mar 7th 2020 at 5:23:44 AM

It may help to improve the disambiguation info on top of the ATT board. I am going out on a limb here but it seems to have worked out for Trope Finder.

That might help, too.

To go with the random media button, why not rename it Media Finder?

That's what I've suggested earlier. The only reason against it I thought of was the possibility that someone would mistake it for a place for finding image, video, and audio files because for some that's the definition of "Media", but since we have "Media" on that header above, it's super unlikely.

TBF, People have been mistaking Trope Finder for a search function for a while, so it's not that unlikely.

I'm in support of "Media Finder", it's more concise about the content.

I've been skimming this conversation and I would like to point out that there is a significant cost involved in changing the name of a core wiki feature. Not monetary, but in terms of all the people who are used to the way it currently is.

We've been gradually changing some of the more idiosyncratic terms used on TV Tropes, and I'm in favor of that for the most part, but there is a certain value to maintaining a unique identity as a website.

I agree that website identity is a good thing. It makes us who we are (obvious fact is obvious), it makes people nostalgic, it's just important. That said, I think that we still have plenty of things that set us apart from others. The word "Trope" or our no notability policy, the namespace and alphanumeric URL system, or the formatting or writing style that can't be found anywhere else. It just can't. A rename of something misleading or two probably won't kill this (though renaming everything or the large majority might affect it).

Edited by Piterpicher on Mar 14th 2020 at 4:57:33 PM

That's one reason why I'd prefer moving the order of the links or having a more obvious "THIS IS WHAT ATT IS FOR" notice before changing the name; we don't want to make this site too dry. A lot of recent changes have been moving away from this site's identity as fun and casual, so keeping whatever we can will help prevent that from disappearing.

I agree that a lot of changes do seem to be moving this site away from fun and casual, but would a rename or two be a part of that (I don't feel like it would change that much, "You Know That Thing Where" -> "Trope Launch Pad" has a miniscule effect at most)? I thought that far more immediate threats to these traits would be new policies, a more advanced writing style, overall more cleanup than article creation, etc. I don't know, maybe it's just me.

Edited by Piterpicher on Mar 14th 2020 at 7:51:54 PM

It's just that the name itself is pretty casual and fun while "Media Finder" isn't (that one also carries a risk of being used as a Search Engine, like Trope Finder is). I don't think the name itself is causing problems; I think it's just that people go to ATT first.

I tend to prioritize clarity and good-looking pages over fun-and-casual in most circumstances, but that's because I find there's some benefit to things like cleanup work and better writing standards; I just don't see as much of a benefit in this case.

Edited by WarJay77 on Mar 14th 2020 at 2:52:30 PM

I suppose that there is more benefit to a higher quality writing standard compared to just a rename that probably wouldn't do much more for clarity (at least, I understand that "You Know That Thing Where" as well as "Lost and Found" were rather obtuse name and a rename was smart, while "You Know That Show" is fairly clear while keeping the casual trait).

If we want to make a more clear what ATT is for, what do you think of an uncloseable for 10 20 seconds (more time for reading may be needed) box with info about what ATT is for and other venues your question may belong to for the first few posts mentioned in post 6?

Edited by Piterpicher on Mar 14th 2020 at 8:01:16 PM

That's a little too intrusive, and depends on how often/when it pops up- I'm on ATT all the time, so that'd drive me absolutely insane if it weren't only there occasionally.

I'd much prefer if the queries were merged into one and then you were asked beforehand what kind of query you were posting; then your post would be put on the proper page. ATT would be at the bottom so people would have to see all the other options first.

That's probably something for 2.0 though, as it's such a big change.