The General Star Wars Thread

I mean. In canon aren't the only examples we see of this Anakin and children Cad Bane stole in Clone Wars?

We have very little to extrapolate from other than "well, Anakin was begrudgingly taken from his home for a better life and discouraged from missing or contacting his mother. Also this was done at an older age than usual."

... like, anyway you cut it, this is weird and skeevy.

"Better than the SPARTAN program" is Damning With Faint Praise.

Edited by Larkmarn on Feb 25th 2021 at 3:10:41 PM

All those things positive about Jedi training can be done with adults, though, or without insisting the children cut off all communication with their families.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Feb 25th 2021 at 12:10:37 PM

To use a real-life comparison, we also don't teach people how to read when they reach adulthood. Children are better learners.

But we don’t make kids stay in school for their entire childhoods 24/7/365. Even boarding school kids get to go home for holidays.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Feb 25th 2021 at 12:12:19 PM

We also don't take children away from their families permanently in order to teach them to read. We realized it's possible to have multiple places to teach them to read that they can go to more conveniently, or if we send them away to learn to read, let them return home occasionally.

And I'm sure either canon or Legends EU will disagree, but the whole "untrained Force-sensitives are dangerous!" argument doesn't really hold water based on the movies or Clone Wars. Every single evil Force User I can think of had training from childhood (be it Jedi, Sith, or Night... sibling?) whereas those who grew up without it (Luke, Leia, Rey, Finn, arguably Grogu) turned out... well, to not be space Hitler.

EDIT: Actually, I have no idea when and how Sheev was trained and five minutes of Googling aren't helping so... yeah.

Edited by Larkmarn on Feb 25th 2021 at 3:21:45 PM

Yeah, I've said a lot here, the problem is that Anakin was misinterpreting the advice of the Jedi and twisting it into "They don't care." Like Yoda says, they have gone on to something bigger and better, so we shouldn't mourn them or miss them.

The problem Jedi have with attachment is basically illustrated in Anakin. He doomed the galaxy to decades of tyranny trying to save someone that, for all intents and purposes, didn't need saving to begin with because he couldn't handle the thought of life without her.

It would be a good idea to show some cases of Force Sensitive children growing up to use their powers for evil or going crazy to showcase why it is needed to begin training at a young age.

Hell imagine someone who’s a natural sociopath born with powers. That’s exactly how Sidious started out.

Edited by slimcoder on Feb 25th 2021 at 12:35:31 PM

What Anakin needed was to be told that morning and dealing with it is a process long and hard, one which others would naturally need to help him with. Because people don’t just let go so easily.

But Yoda had no understanding of what Anakin truly wanted or needed from that conversation, so the speech only worsened things and lead Anakin to a different conclusion, and Anakin was afraid of them learning about said relationship.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Feb 25th 2021 at 1:22:22 AM

I don't think it is so much that untrained force users turn out to become crazy psychic monsters, it's generally shown that without training force awareness manifests as good intuition or passive empathic abilities. The issue was that training force users as adults was giving someone with emotional damage superpowers and at the least they were more likely to compromise their commitment to Jedi responsibilities. Basically what happened to Anakin but on a much more consistent level.

It was heavily implied in the movies, and spelled out directly in the books, that their dogma surrounding their training practices had its own flaws. The Sith adapted with the Rule of Two, the Jedi needed to become more flexible as well, which manifested in Luke.

To note, Yoda's advice is a very good example of realistic general advice that people give other people in the real world every day. It's maybe the most real world comparable bit of wisdom we ever get from a Jedi. It's the reason why they throw parties for funerals in New Orleans.

The problem wasn't Yoda's advice, it was that Anakin came there looking for something specific but refused to give further information that could have helped Yoda give him a better answer.

Instead, he gave a general "I'm afraid of losing people" and so Yoda gave him a general "death is a natural part of life" speech. Anakin wasn't looking for spiritual reassurance or wisdom, he was looking for a solution, and in the absence of the latter he dismissed the former.

This is outlined best in TCW, where Ahsoka goes through an almost identical plot involving a vision and Padme dying, and she goes straight to the masters with her exact problem and they are able to make a solution. TCW did a lot of that: putting Ahsoka into the same situations as Anakin and showing how he had raised her in many ways to be a better version of him.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Feb 25th 2021 at 2:36:44 AM

That is something I don't think the prequels (or the Lucas era in general) get enough credit for, the way the stories are told and the "magic" is described and used are functional and practical. If you understand the analogy it works in a real life scenario and teaches a valuable lesson for all ages.

So many similar works either fall into a Space Whale Aesop because of the magic or use bland platitudes like "Be Yourself" or "Never give up" that can backfire horribly when put into a different context.

Sheev's backstory in the new canon is pretty much a mystery. All that's known is that at some point early in his life he was discovered by Darth Plagueis and trained to be a Sith. We don't know how early...but it likely wasn't childhood. In the Legends continuity at least, he was already a young adult (and already showing troubling behavior) before Plagueis found him.

Edited by M84 on Feb 26th 2021 at 2:51:46 AM

Ehhh aseops in general can be pretty bad depending on the situation as they often clash one each other.

In general, anakin indeed wanted a solution, he saw his own mother die and yoda advice while good kinda come across as "deal with it" because Anakin cant said the truth.

And in a way anakin is ALSO atach to the jedi order, he cant see himself as anything else as jedi and cant imagine be there while there is a war, have they expell anakin,t hey would pretty much leave him to sidious to pick down.

Yoda gave a very good answer based on what he knew but because he and Anakin were accidentally talking about totally different things it wasn't at all helpful to Anakin right then.

We the audience know who the visions were about but Yoda for all his wisdom doesn't, nor does Anakin in that dialogue give him any particular reason to think there's more to it.

It's definitely a bit Poor Communication Kills but AT LEAST as much Anakin's fault as Yoda's, in this specific incident at any rate.

A therapist can only do so much to help if the client isn't being honest about their problems.

"Sheev's backstory in the new canon is pretty much a mystery. All that's known is that at some point early in his life he was discovered by Darth Plagueis and trained to be a Sith. We don't know how early...but it likely wasn't childhood. In the Legends continuity at least, he was already a young adult (and already showing troubling behavior) before Plagueis found him."

It's just a theory but I think the "Acolyte" will be Plagueis' first apprentice, and when she dies (or apparently dies), Sidious will become the new apprentice.

Possible, but the Acolyte is supposed to be a primarily female lead series IIRC and Plagueis was definitely male as per ROTS, so although a theoretical "first apprentice" could be female I'm sceptical. Plus having a female lead killed off to give Palpatine a boost would not go down well.

Edited by jakobitis on Feb 26th 2021 at 2:33:07 PM

Maybe he also had several host bodies, one of them female, ala Vitiate.

That is a possibility. I'm certainly not ruling it out completely but I don't get the impression that Plagueis/Palpatine are going to feature.

Pretty sure "a female-led series where the supposed female lead is effectively a transman" would just piss off everyone.

Without further details, his canon backstory is the unintentionally hilarious "some rich guy who decided to be the most evil dude in the galaxy for kicks".

Edited by Synchronicity on Feb 26th 2021 at 8:44:36 AM

"Possible, but the Acolyte is supposed to be a primarily female lead series IIRC and Plagueis was definitely male as per ROTS, so although a theoretical "first apprentice" could be female I'm sceptical. Plus having a female lead killed off to give Palpatine a boost would not go down well."

It is noteworthy that I did not give importance to gender, you are the one considered something bad, just because "The Acolyte" is a woman.

Also, it is possible that she did not die, it is possible that she faked her death, and decided to travel to a lay place, far from the rule of two.

Honestly, Thinking that Plaeguis' first apprentice is a woman only represents Unfortunate Implications, if you give too much importance to gender.

Edited by JoLuRo075 on Feb 26th 2021 at 7:05:21 AM

What?

My point is that I don't see anything wrong, with Plagueis' first apprentice being a woman, just for the fact that Darth Sidious ended up replacing her.

Come to think of it, we don't really know the exact timeframe of The Acolyte, other than it being late High Republic.

While there is some ambiguity as to where precisely that could be, even the later dates could put it far enough back to be dealing with Plaguis's master. ie the titular Acolyte is the person who would go on to train Darth Plaguis.