Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker (spoilers obviously)

It's an image thing. Disney wants their own Star Wars movies to be seen as good.

Besides, it's the same sort of thing that Luke had with how Luke was written in The Last Jedi. "It's not my Luke Skywalker" of course it's not, because his character has changed in 30 years. That doesn't automatically make it bad, and Hammill actually explained his point better when the fans took that as a sign that he hated it.

Edited by theLibrarian on Sep 26th 2019 at 2:39:56 PM

I like Phasma as the new Boba: looks cool, has impressive armor, goes down like a chump whenever the heroes act against her.

My only problem (albeit a big one) with her in a diminished role is that it diminishes the part of the narrative that's about Finn and thus diminishes his narrative as well. Finn's lack of a real thing to do or strive for besides following other characters' goals (and learn the same lessons again) is a major problem with his character arc in TLJ.

To be fair, that wasn't a good look for anybody.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Sep 26th 2019 at 11:40:09 AM

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.

Boba Fett was the best thing about the Holiday Special.

Well, Boba Fett and Bea Arthur.

Yeah, I've seen speculation Hamill backpedaling on his criticisms of TLJ was due to one of these agreements as well.

Or he just changed his mind. We obviously have no way of knowing.

From what I can recall, people exaggerated his statements in the first place. He never backpedaled as much as he said "I never said I hated the movie, stop spreading that around."

Hamill is nothing if not rather blunt about his opinions on things.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Sep 26th 2019 at 2:01:37 AM

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.

@Hamburger Time Personally, I'd argue it's less changing his position and more that his criticisms of TLJ are usually taken out of context and made to look harsher than they are.

He probably has signed some form of Non-Disparaging Agreement, and some people argue that his public backpedaling is due to him being threatened by Disney. According to Mark, Disney never complained about his comments, though this is often met with "Disney told him to say that, too".

The problem with the "Disney made Mark backpedal" argument isn't even that it's necessarily false. The problem is that it's used as a free license to cherry-pick Mark's comments. If he says something positive, he's being forced to say that; if he says something negative, it's his honest opinion. This line of reasoning essentially makes it impossible for Mark to have a positive opinion of the movie. The actual implications of Disney forcing Mark to backpedal are that you shouldn't trust anything Mark says, at all.

"Any campaign world where an orc samurai can leap off a landcruiser to fight a herd of Bulbasaurs will always have my vote of confidence"

It’s essentially the same as the “Disney paid reviewers to say X” argument.

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.

Boba fett was a eilte Monk who was given more attention because fans like him.

Phasma was a secondary antagonist that they did nothing with.

Not really the same thing.

Edited by DeanCole on Sep 26th 2019 at 6:41:29 AM

Phasma is almost Boba Fett in reverse, a character with a admittedly cool design sold as a key player but ultimately a inconsequential role (whilst Boba was character with a admittedly cool design and a inconsequential role eventually propped up to key player).

It's been observed before the "Boba Fett" of the ST (minor character propped up to stardom by just being cool-looking) is the fabled TR-8R, and that remains true to this day.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."

If you want something cool with Phasma doing something. I suggest you read her solo novel, Resistance, or the Captain Phasma comic. All three make her death in TLJ so satisfying to watch. Plus they are just good products.

Edited by Bullman on Sep 26th 2019 at 10:58:58 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread

Would be nice if I didn't have to read supplementary material to get any sort of bead on Phasma.

Boy do I feel bad for the actress.

Edited by slimcoder on Sep 26th 2019 at 8:59:53 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

The only reason you should feel bad for the actress is if, simultaneously to working in Star Wars, she was also involved in a different super popular franchise where her character ultimately ended up doing nothing and having no impact.

But that probably never happened.

Edited by alliterator on Sep 26th 2019 at 9:32:43 AM

Boy that be some crappy-ass luck if that were to ever happen.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

Well, at least Brienne of Tarth did a lot of awesome things before being ultimately useless.

The difference between Boba Fett and Phasma is that Boba Fett was introduced as a new character joining the established cast, his most notable advertisement being a famously bad tv special that was only shown once, the media at the time was not that obsessive over every new piece of information revealed for the big blockbusters. Phasma was introduced accompanying information that she would be played by a relatively big name actress, all with the assumption that she would be among the major villains of the new story arc. So Boba Fett shows up, doesn't have a big role but does it well while looking badass, that made him a surprisingly popular character (note that discounting his death in ROTJ he still has a cool mysteriousness about him). Now Phasma shows up, looks like she is an important character but really doesn't do anything important (no reason they couldn't bomb the shield generator or deactivate it like Kenobi did the tractor beam in ANH, which would have been more interesting to watch) and is even played for a chump in the process, it's almost a guaranteed disappointment. TLJ is similar, she reappears to look badass and have a fight with Finn, but the character and the fight could be removed from the story and nothing lost.

Yeah I’m a huge ST fanboy and even I can admit that Phasma is the biggest disappointment in the ST. Thr marketing for her character was pretty great and she just did not live up to it at all. Boba Fett is overrated as hell but Phasma never even got the opportunity. Hell, I would even argue that Phasma became less interesting after TFA, not TLJ.

Also, I’m a little late to the discussion but what exactly was the point of Bob Iger sharing Lucas’ frustrations with the public? That wasn’t exactly good marketing for TROS, especially considering how already divided the Star Wars fanbase is.

I mean, George Lucas didn’t have to sell the SW brand but he did. I get that SW is a very taxing and exhausting franchise (being a fan of it is exhausting in and of itself) but...it’s hard to feel anything towards this situation. Also, I don’t think George Lucas’ Sequel Trilogy would have been great either.

The EU version of Phasma is legitimately an interesting character, being genuinely competent albeit also incredibly ruthlessly self-centered and ambitious and screwing over absolutely ANYONE at all in the name of self preservation. Which is almost completely absent from the films.

"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."

Iger shared Lucas's thoughts in a memoir, so not exactly a publicity statement. In either case, I figure the sharing of Lucas's thoughts might just be a way to distance themselves even further from Lucas. The whole song-and-dance of Disney since buying Star Wars has been treating George Lucas almost like a persona non-grata to play up to the fans ("we're saving this franchise from how George Lucas ruined it").

It's just Disney doesn't seem to have fully calculated that A) Lucas would absolutely not keep his mouth shut B) there are still portions of the fanbase who care about Lucas, and both facts have been causing problems for their heading of the franchise by way of the increasingly worse civil war in the Star Wars fanbase.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."

Lucas actually seems like a more respected figure now than he was during the PT era. I vividly recall how common it was to see him portrayed as a money-grubbing hack who couldn't leave the series well enough alone with a good conclusion and just had to come back to milk it more. I even remember speculation that most of the well-liked bits of the OT weren't even his idea and that he'd pulled a Bob Kane on someone else, such as Kasdan or Kurtz.

This was mostly because Disney showed what "milking the star wars cash cow until its dry to the bone" actually looks like, compared to what Lucas did in his time. So there's also been something of a revaluation of Lucas as more of a flawed artist (for good and for ill) and less of a "greedy moneyman" type in hindsight, which I feel is closer to the mark.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."

Didn't he give all his Disney money to charity?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

Most of it, reportedly.

He's been pretty thoroughly Vindicated by History. Not that he didn't make mistakes or get things wrong (he did) or he's suddenly a genius level writer (he's not) but compared to more recent attempts it's clear just how much worse it can be.

"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."

You also had to read a shitton of other stuff in the old EU for Boba Fett to look cool.

Uh, I have thoroughly enjoyed all of the new Star Wars films (excepting Solo) far more than the Prequels.